A scientific test of 440 Hz vs 432 Hz
Over the summer I wrote a blog post about people who like to detune music from standard concert pitch (440 Hz) to a lower tuning frequency (432 Hz) claiming it sounds better. Search for “432 hz” in YouTube and you’ll find plenty of examples where people have applied a pitch shifter to alter music ranging from a Mozart Requiem to Oasis’ Wonderwall.
But some claim that there is more to this than just preference. There are several blogs that claim that using a normal concert tuning of 440 Hz is bad for our health, but then what do you expect from something first promoted by the Nazis?
I decided to put this to a test with a web experiment. I couldn’t test the health effects, but it is straightforward to test for preference, which is what seems to the motivation for most of the YouTubers.
The experiment had ten pieces of music chosen from the Free Music Archive. Pieces were chosen which have a very different ‘feel’. Each of these was pitch shifted to simulate seven tuning frequencies of 416, 424, 432, 440, 448, 456 and 465Hz. So far people have listened to 1396 pairs of clips, where for each the listener simply says which one they preferred. That is a couple of hundred people doing the test. Thanks to all those who did it.
A higher mean score shows a frequency that was liked more. Changing the frequency has a significant effect. (This was statistically confirmed using a Kruskal-Wallis test, p<0.001). Pitch shifting the music to a higher pitch made the music worse (all p<0.03, Mann-Whitney U test). Pitch shifting the music to a lower pitch did not make any difference to preference.
People may think that music sounds better at 432 Hz and therefore applying a pitch shifter to their favourite tunes will improve quality, but for people who took part in my experiment this wasn’t true. 432 Hz and 440Hz were rated with equal preference. This doesn’t surprise me, because when we hear a melody it is mostly about relative pitch. I suspect that pitch shifting to higher frequency makes thing worse because of artefacts introduced by the pitch shifting plug-in I used. I wonder if the result might have been different for those with absolute pitch?
You can still try the experiment, it is the one labelled “Two Snippets of Music…” on www.sound101.org.
The data from the experiment can be downloaded from here.
 I took the songs from this paper: 1000 songs for emotional analysis of music doi>10.1145/2506364.2506365 I then grouped the songs into 10 clusters according to the emotional responses to the music that had been measured in the study reported in the paper. I used a k-means algorithm on the arousal and valence score. I then took the songs nearest to the centre of each cluster which had a license that allowed me to use it in the experiment.
417 responses to “Pitch shifting to 432 Hz doesn't improve music”
I can’t help but think that artificially changing the pitch of a piece of music is not the same as playing it in a different pitch. Take, for example, the electric guitar – several very eminent players  were renowned for tuning down a semi-tone to E flat. This has a clear effect on the sound of the instrument which is not the same as artificially altering the tuning of recording originally made at normal pitch (tuned to E).
 Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughan
Agreed it isn’t the same. But what people are doing on YouTube is exactly the same process as I did. Here is an example video:
Assuming John Lennon has been resurrected, I presume they used a pitch shifter!
The Beatles tuned to 432 Hz naturally. BTW I listened to your test and because you switched tunes for just about every test it made no sense. Also the tunes you choose sound like someone caught a cat’s tail in a meat grinder. It detracts from the test. Take imagine and change the frequency to the different levels and try it again. If you want to have a cat wailing at least make it wail at all the frequencies to give some type of consistency.
I think a lot of people here are misreading the title of this post. The author is claiming that the ‘pitch-shifting’ from 440Hz to 432Hz doesn’t help. He is not making any judgment on music ‘created’ using an A=432Hz standard. With that said it’s pretty obvious that forcing a soundwave through an imperfect algorithm will just hurt the sound. People aware of this concept really just want to know: Does song X naturally created with the A=432Hz standard have any benefit over song X naturally created with an A=440Hz standard?
Thanks for your research.
I’m looking at purchasing another Schumann resonator as I bought two from altered states in NZ, one for myself & one for my son.
Two worked really well mounted 20-30cm on either side of my head while I slept & watched TV. The difference was immediate & such a relief, so I know “for a fact” they are very good for their purpose (actually miracle workers). I gave my son one but now find one alone is not quite as effective. Do you think this would be because of the power output or that there was one in each ear?
I liked to use them in the background while watching TV etc as it is great for concentrating & keeping away other unwanted effects.
I have a Schumann resonator (harmonizer) which is sine wave (inaudible) &, honestly, it works wonders (very powerful effect). If you hold it next to your ear you can hear a clicking sound at 7.8Hz.
I don’t quite understand why it is inaudible yet you can feel it in your body whereas many of the youtube 7.8Hz are audible but you can’t feel them.
My resonator also has other frequencies selectable with a button press but they are audible & in 50% square wave magnetic field in cycle without break. I don’t use the other settings as the Schumann resonance is extremely effective.
Any knowledge & info you may wish to share about the harmonizer would be gratefully received. eg difference between the “type” of 7.83Hz produced by the resonator & 7.83Hz produced from speakers.
I also invested in a $5000 QRS device which is great for health & within the first week we have noticed improvements in every area, but still not even close to the benefits of two schumann resonators.
My family would appreciate your help!
Thanks for any info, it is appreciated.
BTW THERE IS NO DOUBT THEY CHANGED TO 440Hz FOR THE 3RD BEAT. NOT VERY NICE PEOPLE & IT’S UNIMAGINABLE HOW THEY THINK THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT.
I agree with the above poster and your hypothesis which I proved. Blindly throwing a pitch shift plugin at mastered tracks is idiotic and not what is mean when it’s said 432hz sounds better.
You have to tune the instrument to that. I have tried that with guitar and was not impressed. Perhaps you need strings wound specifically for 432hz?
I am skeptical about the whole thing.
I bet the Nazi thing simply came from the fact that many pianos were built in Germany during the 30s , I have one and if you look on the bottom of the First key on the piano A1 it has 440 scrawled on it in pencil.
“This doesn’t surprise me, because when we hear a melody it is mostly about relative pitch.”
We HUMAN BEINGS ARE DUMB AS FUCKKKK (MOSTLY YOU FOR SAYING IT DOESNT MATTER)
8 vibrations less is enough. its subliminal dudeeeeee
you don’t understand this shit because your not a musical person your not in harmony . Read about about sonic geometry, fibonacci spiral. math and sequences and patterns.ITS ALL ON A MASTER GRID (CALL IT THE UNIVERSE) TUNED IN F# (ANOTHER THING YOU MIGHT NOT UNDERSTAND) Or youtube it cus prob what you’ll do first anyways
damn that felt good
fernando…. drugs, or just stupid?
Fernando, you send a powerful message about sonic frequency and light, but when you do so with the claim that humans are dumb as fuck, it hurts your cause. you are calling out to the lower frequencies of these humans rather than their higher capabilities, which you may not see but are equally real and present. just not so in this dense dimension. PLEASE, be nice 🙂 isnt that the point of telling people to switch to 432 anyways? its something thats gooooood for us.
Well … If I thought 432hz made any difference within us and is more peaceful, and brings humans together and it repairs DNA, etc, etc … Fernando just made me realize that it is absolutely not true OR he does NOT listening to 432hz enough because all that aggressiveness is uncalled for.
The dumbest of us dumb as fuckkks are the ones of us who think they know it all, and I agree, the author of this post is not really a musical or spiritual person… ah, the joys of fundamentalist materialism.
good job fernando
Exactly what I thought. The subject can perceive that the audio work has been altered, and therefore it is not appealing as the original source.
I had to put this to the test … I have always tuned to the 440 … but have since tuned my guitars (accoustic and electric) to 432 … there is a huge differance in the sound quality … the overtones are better … they resonate cleaner and longer. I then tuned a 100 year old violin to 432 what a huge postive difference in the quality of sound to the the 440. As far as pitch shifting music .. one can never get that to work properly. Since the world music is pretty much at 440 our hearing will be adjusted to it … but once you start to use 432 I do not believe you will go back to 440.
Yes Bob! That’s true! I have tested that too. Once you start playing on intruments tunned to 432Hz you will never back to 440! Its just doesnt sounds right anymore.
Also people check out CYMATICS (the way to see sound visual) with a difference between 432 & 440Hz.
Peace & Oneness
Does 432 hurt the instrument
The reason for tuning to 432 is not that it sounds better. That is far too subjective a standard to have any real world meaning. The fact is that the 432 tuning is based on Pythagorian geometry and actually resonates with matter. All of the great composers, Mozart, Beethoven, etc wrote in 432. The original Stradivarius was tuned to 432 (We know this because the “standard” was only changed to 440 in 1939). Why would you want to use an arbitrary standard (440 Hz) to create something as mathematically beautiful as music?
yes yes yes
You’re 100% correct. This test is invalid as each instrument and even percussion have to be universally tuned to a432 then recorded. Pitching down a track that is at a440 will make certain bless and harmonics out of tune and this sound off.
You’re right Robin Bowes. I’ve been gigging and recording for years and we tune A down to 415.3 HZ. As per Hendrix, SRV and Van Halen. It’s much better for rock music. Meatier power chords, slicker string bending.
Thank god a rational mind has been deployed on this subject.
I’ve just read an article on this subject with such poor empirical evidence it was scary.
Quite a ridiculous excuse for an actual test between 432hz music and 440hz music.
I’m a classical guitar player. When I tune my guitar to 432hz using my tuner it not only sounds better but I can FEEL the music better.
and string instrument tuning is a whole different ballgame, as the tuning changes with the intensity of playing, hence the need of purposely detuning the lower strings ( wound ) on a guitar so when playing they come back in tune!
I am personally going a way from equal tempered and using the perfect fifth tuning from Maria Renold.
My slide guitar is also “detuned” slightly on certain strings to give a more musical tone.
I finally adapted a tuning method that works better than what I did for years. If the room is a constant temperature and the Guitar is soaked in that room long enough to be at room temperature also, I tune the string to the desired frequency and then bend the string 3 or 4 times as hard as I would during the performance, I continue this until the bending does not cause the notes pitch to fall at all, meaning I have gotten all slack out from around the machine shaft. I do this for every string and have seen my guitar stay in tune with out further adjustment for as long as a week of constant playing. Took me 30 years to figure that out. If temperatures fluctuate it will not be of much help, but in a stable environment it is awesome and works beautifully. I hate playing or hearing music out of tune. Thanks again for the reply. Try my method for stretching while tuning and let me know what you think.
Regarding the claims on the internet, the real basis to 432hz A tuning is that register shifts for sopranos and baritones make more sense particularly in the works of Verdi. It is also closer to the pitch used by most ancient organs etc. Scientific pitch. Basically, human voices are not generally designed to sing at those frequencies. It is only 8 cycles, but that just points to the knifes edge 440A tuning puts us on. So it is a health thing and performance issue although it can negatively affect the aesthetic of certain pieces.
Sorry, but the difterence between both frequencies is so teeny. 1/6 of tone between 432 and 440 Hz, more teeny than one quarterton. I’m not sure that it is a good argument. Otherwise very subjective.
You missed the point. If the notes in the true scale i worked to uncover referenced to the square root of 144,000 are used, then the two notes in the 400 hz frequency range are 425 and 451. 15 hz less and 11 hz more than 440. This might not seem like much difference, but the way the harmonics work with the math is the real evidence it makes a substantial difference, and the sound is the final proof. I can get harmonics to ring louder and clearer than with the A=440 with less effort. Thanks for the reply.
Thank you. For me, there is no scale that is more true or real than another. Any frequency, has many harmonics than another. On the other hand, I think that digital correspondences are curiosities. I would add that most of the arguments other than digital, advanced to justify the use of a pitch shifting 432 Hz doesn’t have historical or musicological basis. In the recent past, there was only the low, medium and high tones and any fixed reference in the world before 1859. And the most interesting in this study is that at the hearing, in a random sample of population, there is no known preference for the so-called best pitch 432 Hz. About story of musical pitch, I refer you to the writings of the French musicologist Jacques Chailley or Canadian researcher Bruce Haynes.
Emmanuel- you’re not a singer, are you? The acoustical and muscular differences in even such a slight discrepancy in pitch as between 440 and 432 are PROFOUND, when applied to certain composers. Singing Bach in ‘early music’ pitch puts all of his bass solos out of the reach (appropriately so!) from the ‘Hampson croon’ baritones, and into the realm of true bassos, where they belong.If the dearth of good singers since the 1970’s is any indication, it is also largely due to the desire of orchestras in Europe wanting an A sometimes up to 445!
God never intended (and science clearly is proving that fact) humans to sing above certain limits- clearly the Queen of the Night’s High F is much easier to hit, when it’s merely a ‘high side E’!
the difference between 1/6th of an inch during surgery can mean the difference between life and death
what part of your brain thinks such subtle differences can not have massive consequences?
John. You are completely off basis with your “High F is much easier to hit, when it’s merely a ‘high side E’!” statement. You obviously don’t know what you are talking about. The full note difference between A=440 and G#=415.30 is 24.7 steps. That means, even when tuned to A=432, it is not a complete note difference. Just flat when compared. So, as I said, your example is pointless and makes me want to disregard all of your statements for stretching the truth (or pitch) to try to convince others of your point.
You don´t know but you criticize. The further you get from the middle a, the bigger the difference of tuning is. Between f2 – f2 (american f5-f5) is already 13 steps ( 685 Hz and 698,5 Hz) and in the next octave it is already about 23 steps (e3 is 1293 Hz and 1316 Hz ) , when you tune on pitch a 432 or a 440. I have measured it on my instrument where the highest string is e3 (amer e5), so I don´t know Hz value of the f3 but clearly, the higher you go, the bigger difference tuning makes. I am not a mathematic so I don´t know why. I am not dogmatic about any sort of tuning. I sing in the range of soprano, only as high as a2 (american a5) when I sing with a piano. But when I sing with an instrument tuned a432, I make it to the b-flat. One note higher. (with lyra). John probably knows wery well what he is talking about. … (I measure with tolerance of plus minus 1 Herz, so not absolutely exact – if you want it more exact take your time and explore, rather then criticize). Anna from Europe
I got it its very simple. Just thinking a few minutes. With each octave up the number of vibrations per second (Hertz) doubles, so the difference grows. So nearly two octaves higher (which almost is from a 440 to Queen of the night…well, nearly…) the vocal cords have to vibrate nearly four times more – 1397 times per second. Imagine what they must do, what tonus they must pull to vibrate so guickly. If you had ever tuned a string instrument, you would have experienced the difference: when you tune just a tiny little bit sharper a middle range string (that is easy) from when you tune the little bit sharper the highest strings – that seem to nearly crack and it is very difficult, it is easily overstrained and the string damaged. The same feels with vocal cords. The little up there is different from the little in the middle.
This study is biased to the core as it simply asks for preference strongly influenced by the subconscious. Being subjected essentially only to 440hz for your entire life, you’re more likely to pick that which you recognize and identify with first. How about you do a study in which you look at the influence of music on plants at 440hz and 432hz and see which has the more beneficial effects, using the same equipment for both test groups, of course, as to negate any argument of equipment having an effect. Do that, then you will get ACTUAL SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to support the claim one way or the other. After all, music has been proven to effect the growth of plants, so it makes perfect sense that the tone and frequency might change the effect in the same way that different styles of music will change the effects of sound on the plants.
This study that you’ve done though, this is simply an idiotic senseless, and unscientific attempt to debunk something with little actual effort to get ANY empirical data on the subject. There was no use of scientific method in this experiment, you just surveyed. Surveys are proven to be pretty much the most flawed method of collecting data you can use. So in response to anyone that thinks this is a well done scientific study, you don’t know science.
Well said Bonbonmon.
As this is a blog entry, I decided not to write out the full scientific method used. What was used was a blind paired comparison technique from experimental psychology, you’ll find plenty of pages about the method on the web as it dates back to the first half of the twentieth century. The statistical methods used to demonstrate statistical significance were given in the blog entry.
Trevor, we don’t doubt you know a lot about statistics. So, you surely must know that a specific event can depend on many variables. I mean, your results can actually be part of what people think it sounds best for them because is what they always hear and what we think is normal. I think you should test your music samples with a random group of people or other living beings not in a survey, but in a measured and controlled test based on effects and not in what people like, as some researchers have done with plants. I really want to know if 432 hz music has all those good effects given by nature, because for me, music in 440 doesn’t have a difference. But is just what I like. Please do it.
Thing is, you used a pitch bender. This means if the music were originally recorded in even temperament, then it is still played in even temperament. the real thing here is the fact that we need to move away from the general-purpose temperaments and move toward a temperament centered around the particular key in which a piece is being played. And that’s the difference between A 432Hz from a pitch bender and A 432Hz from the truly different tuning schema.
I’m not saying this research isn’t interesting, but I am saying it doesn’t actually address the question being truly proposed. Still, thank you for your work; at LEAST it shows that electronically bending the pitch by a fractional factor is meaningless (as most of us would expect).
This is exactly what I was thinking in regards to people being biased because they’ve been exposed to 440hz most of their lives.
Boom. Those who have been conditioned to identify with 440hz would, it seems, obviously choose for the familiar. Evidence lies not in a human choice that is impacted by conditioning, but, to no small degree, in cymatics. Matter, existing as vibrations manifest in the physical, will respond more harmoniously to the creation of certain vibrational frequencies. This is science independent of the noise that is human conditioning.
I argue that you guys don’t realize one thing: over 99.5% of people who have grown up with ‘music’ (at least in the USA) have no clue about the difference made by a few hertz shift in tone. They also have zero musical sophistication, preferring music that goes I V I V I V I to music that actually moves. You can’t just use regular people in this study because they have no understanding of what they hear. Plus they can’t really identify with 440 Hz versus 432 Hz because most of them are absolute rookies when it comes to music. They only know anything about ‘music,’ in which they normally only really pay attention to the words and don’t understand at all how the melodies, bass, counterpoints, etc affect the emotional sense of the tune. Plus, most modern music has so little music in it. Counterpoint is basically gone in the 21st century UNLESS you’re a music scholar or a classical / postclassical musician
Converting files originally recorded at 440hz to 432hz is futile because the idea of recording music, say for example a guitar at 432hz means you have a sympathetic range of intervals that work on a ratio of 3:2 (perfect fifths) which result in whole numbers that resonate with each other and are mathematically harmonious. Music originally recorded at 440hz will not have these harmonic qualities to begin with so converting them to 432 achieves little other than further degrading the sound quality via time stretching algorithms. It’s analogous to converting a 4 megapixel image to 8 megapixels in the hope of improving picture quality. It is a conceptual fallacy. Not to mention that if you are even thinking about attempting this with mp3 files you are wasting your time because of the bitrate and compression quality is designed to compromise between file size and audio integrity. Hope this helps clear a few things up for somebody.
This is what people are doing on Youtube. People are using pitch shifting algorithms, so it is a proper test of what is being done.
It’s only a fallacy if the recording was recorded at a low sample rate. The algorithm shifting down to 432 would stretch bits, and leave artifacts. However, if the recording were done at 192,000 samples a second then the audible artifacts would equal roughly 188,509 samples per second. I doubt any one here could tell the difference between the two different set of samples other than pitch itself being adjusted. If you were sitting behind a $20,000 pair of speakers with ribbon tweeters (so to “hear” the 50k frequencies along with the subharmonics) you would then have a “better test.”
My point is that that would not be a practical experiment, and i bet no one here can tell if this example recoding was done at 44,000, 48,000, or if the examples are .mp3
That being said, i know that these are likely .mp3’s because it loaded up on my phone so quickly.
Good (enough) test. Very interesting argument made, and the whole point of science it to make an argument and prove it. Anyone else want to take the scientific challenge of proving him wrong. If so, post it on a blog (or this one). It’ll be easy to google and YOU might actually learn something by conducting a similar experiment yourself.
Sorry, quick calculation fix:
192,000 to roughly 195,555
Originally, I accidently calculated from 440 to 448. my bad.
The ratio 3:2 expresses the concept of Pythagorean tuning, in perfect fifths. Just tuning the note A to 432Hz on a guitar will not produce this intonation as guitar frets are placed to concur with equal temperament, not Pythagorean. There seems to be a lot of confusion in this “debate” about the differences between intonation, temperament, pitch and frequency.
There is plenty of available history that people could look at, too. A440 was recommended as a standard pitch at least as early as the 1830s, somewhat before Herr Goebbels was around. Many others have been too, generally at a time when conceiving such pitches in terms of Hz was impossible.
And how many recordings that we assume are at A440 actually are? Lots of the Beatles oeuvre, for example, is recorded at different pitches, either at the instrument or at the tape deck, and in many instances both at once.
The following comment was sent to me via email:
I see you wanted to debunk the 432 vs 440 Hz concert pitch myth. I did a lot of research on the topic, made music with Tibetan Ceremonial temperament, tuned my electronic piano to 416Hz (and it really sounds great I must say plus having the benefit of being almost a semitone lower so one can transpose a semitone and be almost in tune, a real semitone lower is 415.30 using Eq. Temperament).
I wanted to share some interesting notes and critize your research a bit 😉 Ok let’s start at the critique; I think you cannot expect music being retuned or repitched to sound better thus it seems logical that people prefer the original Sade, tuned at 440Hz. Also the tempo matters a lot but I’m not sure if the youtube videos were slowed down or repitched?
Also note that each instrument is build to sound best at a particular pitch, therefore I cannot agree that the piano recording, tuned 440 and then at 432 could be used as scientific proof that there is no preference for either tuning, or as you said slight preference to 440, which I assume the Steinway? was build for.
Ok now some interesting facts;
– you do know that the whole frequency table where the rows are powers of two, collumns power of 3, having thus whole hertz frequencies (no fractions) by Pythagoras has a middle of A=432?
– 440 is divisable by 11 which is a bad number in the bible, 432 by 12 and 416 by 13
-Tibetan singing bowls are tuned by hand, and some monks could tune them to the tenth of a hertz precisely? These bowls are used for healing (chakras) tuning your body 🙂
– I experimented with tibetan tuning (see Logic Pro’s tuning menu) and according to the frequencies of the planets of our solar system, when tuned to a concert pitch of 432 the major scale matched mostly with those frequencies? (I actually made a track of it and it sounds rather cosmic like really nothing else I’ve heard and it makes me feel really good).
I used a standard pitch shifting algorithm that didn’t alter tempo. I agree that pitch shifting isn’t the same as starting with a different instrument tuning, but many people advocating the use of 432Hz seem to start by pitch shifting a record originally made at 440Hz, so my experiment does reflect a common practice.
bad number in the bible… chakras… frequencies of the planets.. LOL
bowo – You just haven’t attained enough knowledge to understand these things and thats okay. Most people will never understand it through their whole lifetime.
Closed mind… doesn’t research the actual science behind it… head in the sand.. LOL
The powers of 2 argument looks like it could be significant at first glance (after all, powers of 2 underlie much of computer science), until you realize that the whole convention of describing frequencies as cycles per second is simply founded on convenience. There is nothing fundamental about hours, minutes, or seconds as time divisions, or anything about the sexagecimal system for that matter. So C=256, or 2*8 Hz leading to A=432 Hz isn’t significant at all. It’s nothing but numerology based on an inherited convention.
I don’t know if the origin of the A440 = Nazi mind control meme has been mentioned before in this long thread, but it has been mentioned on the Motherboard site (the thread comes up as a google hit under 432 Hz). Apparently we have Lyndon Larouche to thank. Larouche, for those unfamiliar, is an ex-Marxist who in the 1970s morphed his group of followers into a paranoid, sometimes violent, cult. He became a self-styled expert on all social trends and founded think tanks that largely worked to expound various conspiracy theories. Under that rubric he gained a following on the far right. One of his obsessions was conspiracy theories relating to cultural trends he regarded as degenerate. They usually harkened back to mind control projects run by the CIA or secret international consortia. In 1988 his Schiller Institute published an article authored by one Laurent Rosenfeld, proposing the theory that Giuseppe Verdi’s use of A432 was the standard for classical music, which according to the Larouchies was the high form of musical expression under siege by degenerate trends. (in fact Verdi’s tuning was just one of several local conventions during the period, favored to accommodate vocalists and not so much in favor for instrumental music in larger venues where more loudness was required). The article proposed that Josef Goebbels decided A440 tuning was favorable for instilling aggressive impulses and that Germany decided to dupe the international music community into supporting it in 1939, proposing the standardization on A440 that was internationally adopted in 1940. So now the A432 cultists offer up a stew of Larouchian conspiracy theory (without acknowledging its source), New Age twaddle, and numerology to make their case.
In the broken-clock-right-twice-a-day department, Larouche made the right call on the Iran-Contra scandal months before the story broke and on J. Edgar Hoover’s sexual orientation years before it became public.
I play in Eb instead of E tuning because I’m a Baritone and it helps me achieve a larger range than would be possible for me otherwise.
Alice in Chains recorded nearly all of their music in the same range as well, which was my inspiration for doing so. And I’ve found that after all these years of performing live, Eb has really helped me grow as a musician.
It is good to know that the world is filled with so many experts in psychoacoustics.
It is good to know that the world is filled with snarky critics who had nothing to the conversation.
I agree that the conscious mind might not know that the 432 is more beneficial to the mind and body. That’s like testing smokers and telling them smoking is not healthy. The conscious mind doesn’t signal the body that poison is entering the body. So basically your research shows that on the conscious level it is not noticeable but you can’t deny the fact the 432 is a more harmonious number in nature with many special qualities. This part of the universe has “fixed” numbers in it (kinda like a code). Pi 3.14… Phi 1.618… the charge of an electron is approximately −1.602×10−19 C the energy levels of atoms, atom distances, every object has a frequency that resonates on it’s molecular level where you can actually bring it apart just by emitting that frequency upon it. So the human body and organs has the same qualities. Mediators can actually hear the sound of body organs and further create bowls that sing at those frequencies to enlighten the body. What I’m trying to say is that you can’t rely on the conscious mind to tell you what is right for him, you’ll have a better chance relying on your intuition if you can be objective enough. I stand with the guy who suggested plant growth with 432 and 440 that would definitely be more interesting 🙂
Thanks for the effort it is definitely interesting
But regardless of whether A=432 is more “harmonious with nature”, most (if not all) of the music that Trevor’s been examining is in equal temperament, which is decidedly not a natural system – it alters naturally occurring harmonic ratios to generate an equal 12-tone system. This is the case whether A is 432 or 440. The argument for different temperaments – for natural or physical or other reasons – is a different argument. Trevor’s been clear with exactly what he’s investigating, and it’s not this. It’s about people resampling sound files (which they assume to be at A=440) and claiming they here a beneficial difference, but it’s still in the context of equal (ie artificial) temperament, rather than, say, Pythagorean.
[…] http://acousticengineering.wordpress.com/2013/12/13/pitch-shifting-to-432-hz-doesnt-improve-music/ […]
If you define “pitch shifting” as “detuning pre-recorded music on Youtube,” and “improve” as “create a stronger conscious preference for,” then the title of your article stands. You yourself say that you could not test for health effects, so the Nazi reference is irrelevant – certainly not disproven. I would be much more interested in scientific research regarding the physiological response of music recorded at 440 vs 432.
I agree with you, Joel!
Here’s a reference to a study comparing the effects of A432 to A440 on mental health:
As Bonbonmon pointed out, taste is a matter of exposure. As Stephen notes, frequency shifting the audio track of a YouTube video without temporal compensation is hardly sympatico with the notion of 432Hz, which in part relies for its effect on local resonances and harmonics of an instrument at the time of recording. As Bonbonmon also noted, you can’t add anything that wasn’t originally there.
As for the science, “common practice” has repeatedly been shown to provide a shaky foundation for scientific practices. Much of science is to overcome such popularly entrenched notions. Further, it is not possible to improve the quality of poor experimental procedures and data acquisition, or study of the wrong phenomenon, through the analytic technique employed . . .
Try listen nature sounds in nature, then listen some official records of nature sounds. My expirience is that records are pitched up. Thats sucks.
People are conditioned to listen to 440.
Let me get this straight… (I’m a career audio engineer / producer)
You used a **plug-in** to pitch a piece of music instead of an audio editor (which sounds more transparent).
Then you asked people if they liked the original better, or the totally f*cked up version.
Hmmm. Quaint Science you got there.
Have you ever worked with audio before? Didn’t think so.
I used a well-known piece of professional pitch shifting software.
You used a *plug-in* and you preserved duration, didn’t you?
That is the wrong way to change pitch. You should have done it in an audio *editor* that (DOES NOT preserve duration) and it has to be done carefully to preserve the sound quality and not give you noticeable artifacts that will always skew the results in favor of the un-edited (440Hz) original file.
This was not a Scientific experiment for that reason.
As a career musician and audio technician in a truly professional environment, and a teacher of music/audio production, I can tell you that you tarnished your studio with your lack of audio technical know-how and keen ears for detail.
Ever listen to a record on a turn-table with a pitch slider (like ALL DJ’s use)?? It sounds a lot different when changing pitch, than your little “professional pitch-shifter” PLUG-IN, which keeps the tempo the same, and messes up the sound badly.
I meant to type “… you tarnished your study”, not “studio”. Sorry.
Hi my name is Nate i live in the us, I have a question for you Mr. Cox, I am a worship leader in a church, we play a lot of songs and different styles rock, hip hop, contemporary, etc. all of our songs were written in 440, is it possible to take them all and play them in 432.
There is nothing stopping you playing with any tuning you like, provided your musical instruments can produce the right frequencies. However, there is no evidence that changing the frequency will make any difference to the perceived quality (as demonstrated by Hugo Fastl)
440 to 432 is a subtle difference. If there is something to the universal harmony thing, then pitch shifting would make it harmonious with the universe/planet, plain & simple. Everyone carrying on like a fat old lady is really weird.
People carry on, because there is a lot to carry on about.
Who even knows, who you were referring to… but if it was me talking about the lack of audio quality when using a Pitch-Shifter plug-in, then you must not understand that a study measuring preference, is tainted, if the quality of the effected versions, is lower than the original.
Plus, what’s more important is that when you pitch down 1/3 of a 1/2 step (440, to 432) there is a noticeable change to things like vocal formants which makes a person’s voice start getting the demon (vs chipmunk when pitching up) effect.
If this guy wanted to do a real study, he should have made a song with instruments TUNED to 432… AND 440, not pitch-shifting with a plug-in which totally messes up the sound-quality.
I’m not sure any of you have any audio know-how to begin with so maybe I may as well be talking to a wall.
This was non-scientific, period.
Bookworm, couldn’t agree more . . .
What I have done is completely scientific, not least because I’d very clearly published what I did and this allows you to disagree with the methodology! Of course you are free to disagree with the use of a pitch shifter, but the reason for me using this was not because I particularly advocate this process, but because I was doing what people have been doing on youtube to create supposedly better conditions of a wide variety of music.
Trevor, let me try this again…
You seem to be either trying to save face, or you don’t understand what I’m saying.
You are defending your use of a “Pitch Shifter” and purposefully ignoring the distinction between a Pitch Shifter plug-in (runs in realtime, messes up your sound by preserving song duration) **VERSUS** a destructive editor that Pitch Shifts with decent quality and has the option of NOT TO “preserve duration”. (THIS IS WHAT MOST 432 vids ON YOUTUBE DID!)
Do you understand? Please say “Yes”.
There is no Pitch Shifter plug-in out there that wouldn’t mess up a mixed piece of music..
This would have been a fine experiment, IF you had simply used a Pitch Shifter that was not a PLUG-IN, but simply what is called a “Destructive Edit” (in the EDIT menu of Peak, SoundForge, Wavelab, Audacity etc..) that changes both pitch and tempo. ((THIS IS GOOD))
The people on YouTube are using a vast array of methods to Pitch Shift audio (as there are many), but since you don’t do audio work, you wouldn’t know that.
And that is where Science falls flat on its face. It assumes curiosity and specialty-skills are the same and interchangeable.
My first blog about this (http://acousticengineering.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/do-you-like-your-music-flat/) has a Sadie video on it. Note the length of the videos are the same, hence the person has opted to preserve the duration. I searched for 432 Hz music on YouTube: (i) Elvis Presley “Cant Help Falling in Love”, duration the same (ii) November Rain Guns N Roses, duration the same (iii) Oasis (432 Hz) “Wonderwall” , duration the same (iv) Adele – Skyfall (432 Hz), same duration.
“but since you don’t do audio work”: You may like to know that I teach pitch shifting and phase vocoders to our final year audio technology students.
Maybe if I get a spare moment I’ll upload the sounds into the experiment without preserving the tempo to satisfy your curiosity
@Trevor, If you think what you have done is “scientific” in any sense of the word, perhaps you should stick to what you obviously do well, teaching “final year audio technology students”.
Key information here: PLAY IT ON INSTRUMENTS SPECIFICALLY BUILT FOR THE JUST TEMPERAMENT, and tuned at A:432Hz.
But you could tune the just instrument at 440Hz as well. The thing is, instruments we can commonly get our hands on are made for equal temperament so they will be most versatile.
Trevor Cox: http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/scales.html
Pitch bending, even if you did a perfect job, of the music will not change the tuning but only the pitch. What you need in order to truly study this is to use equal temperament at 440Hz versus just temperament at 432Hz.
Bizarre comments. Trevor has been clear that he is testing what people do before they draw their conclusions, rather than what they, perhaps, SHOULD do. That is to say, he is not testing whether a piece of music recorded with instruments tuned to A=432 sounds better or even just plain different to a piece recorded with instruments at A=440. He is testing practice, not theory, and not necessarily his preferred or recommended practice, either.
This study claims this at the beginning:
“A scientific test of 440 Hz vs 432 Hz”
This is a false statement. To say it is misleading, would be misleading.
I will not waste any more of my time explaining why. If you don’t know why, you probably never will, and I will gladly leave you to your ignorance.
Also, think about maybe “FORMANTS” when you consider why people didn’t like the music that was pitched up! Ever hear of the Chipmunks?
@Stephen, And your point is?
As I have suggested above, there is no science in this so called “experiment”. It is closer to a high school project or the behavior of an amateur hobbiest. For example, although Trevor includes a graph of his results, there is no defined control identified anywhere in the experimental method, and worse there is no definition of the meaning of the error bars on the results he presents in the graph, SD, CI, SEM, CV, who knows . . .
Be that as it may, any experiment that shows error bars with a magnitude similar to the plotted data mean, is strong evidence for the fact that the variation in the data is so great as to suggest the underlying process is random.
It is simple, in this case an unidentified statistic has naively been applied to a data set to extract a “result” and conclusion from an uncontrolled experiment. The graph suggests the data obtained were random. The only conclusion. It is not possible to draw any inferences. Period. It is in that sense that the experiment is completely meaningless, with the possible exception of being a very good example of what the average person thinks is the way that science is “done” . . .
Trevor, you could probably not be more wrong if you tried . . .
All of what you said, is my exact thoughts… this experiment is literally meaningless. I couldn’t agree more!
He doesn’t even take multiple types of pitch-shifting into account, which is all possible nowadays.
Then he claims that it’s a test between 440Hz and 432Hz, when he was testing a plethora of frequency bases, and not even bothering to try tuning instruments or tone generators, (which is so easy) to different pitches and trying it that way, which would obviously be more “fair” and even. Right??
Plus, like you said, pitch preferences in pieces of music is beyond arbitrary… test a million different people on 15 different pitches and the results will be random. You may as well be transposing a song into different keys (or 1/3 of the way to a semitone) and trying the same experiment again. And there will be no difference to most people. And any differences would be possibly due to perceptive changes in preference from one time, to the next. Therefore a multitude of orders in frequencies would need to be tried.
This is like you said. An elementary school science project, simply demonstrating a rudimentary approach to process… not an actual experiment meant to be used to generate real results.
But by all means, let them fill the need for un-verifiable, arbitrary and banal content on the internet. We know there is a shortage of that around and way too many facts in wide circulation. 😉
I used a variety of different frequencies for a couple are reasons. If I was to only use 432 Hz and 440 Hz I would risk subjects being able to guess the tuning being used. It would be obvious that the lower frequency sample in a pair was the 432 Hz example. The test would no longer be blind.
The paragraph under the graph, clearly stated the two statistical tests used to prove significance with P values.
Guys, how about you show us how it should be done? Let’s see what your experiment looks like. Publish your results.
@Robin, I am not an experimental psychologist, so I am not in a position to suggest how you should proceed in a principled way to do the experiment Trevor attempted. But as a professional scientist and reviewer of publications in the scientific literature with over 20 years experience, I do believe I have developed the analytic skills necessary and sufficient to assess Trevor’s “experiment”.
If you, on Trevor’s behalf, are actually claiming it to be a “scientific” experiment, why not undertake your own experiment and get it published in a recognized journal, eg. take your pick from http://www.worldaudiology.com/journals/
My intuition tells me that the reason why Trevor “published” his experiment in a personal blog is that it is a “tongue-in-cheek” or if you prefer a “hand-waving” experiment with little if any substance. My hypothesis is, it would would likely be rejected outright if submitted for review to any professional journal in its present form. Prove me wrong.
The work certainly could be published as a conference paper, there are not enough results to warrant a journal paper. Anyway, if I had published this in a scientific journal, none of you would have read this!
The effect of tuning and key on emotions is a VERY interesting area of study. Trevor, don’t give up simply because your article got some negative reviews here. Please bring together a team of specialists in the various domains, and devise a set of experiments with a more widely acceptable protocol.
Also, please continue to publish here on the internet where any music lover can read and review. A perfect and complete scientific study (if that were possible) written in science-speak could be published in a “respectable” journal, but would most likely be boring, extremely blinkered, and lead nowhere at a snail’s pace.
PS I would like to thank all researchers (even the boring ones), and in particular the iron-in-spinach researcher without whom Popeye would never have been born (decimal point mistake).
hey guys, I am not a musician, but after educating myself a little bit in a specific website online on how to listen to music I think that the choice of music is mostly cultural. most Western music and modernized synthetic music will sound more better for the audience at 440 hz or higher than 432 or lower. otherwise 432 becomes something that you wouldn’t normally put for a large audience and it would probably be for meditational purposes and would not sound very Western and more like tribal music or non-Western “music”. and also the number of tones that people used to hear in the past vs. the number of tones and their synchronization now in modern music has a direct impact on humans if listened long enough.
No offense, but you are clearly neither a musician nor a scientist. You’re offering a lay *opinion* here.
I thank you Trevor.
Here is my own research about the 432 Hz myth (sorry in french).
As I changed the pitch setting on my Snark, I inadvertently left the bathroom exhaust fan on. I was pleasantly surprised to find as I tuned my A string, I noticed it seemed to be more en-harmonic with the 60 Hz AC motor wailing away close by in the bathroom.
Ur expiriment sucks
Do people always or really prefer what is best for their health and well being?
The difference is notable, but people are widely misunderstanding the whole concept and jumping to quick conclusions. Concert pitch 440Hz only defines the place of A 4 note, and the distance ratio between each note remains the same. In the equal tuning that we use today, only the octaves truly resonate in sympathy with one another because if you play the note C4, the next C above that has a sound wave exactly half its length. This is consonance because the vibration happens at a similar rate which doesn’t change. In equal tuning, all of the half note steps between the octave are mathematically divided and placed to an equal distance from one another. In physics, this basically makes all of the inbetween notes resonate in dissonance with one another. When two simultaneous sound waves of different length are played together, their waves interfere and result in a wobbly resonance. Tuning music with equal temperament gives the advantage of maintaining the nature of music if you need to transpose a song for any reason.
In old classical music and especially church music, equal temperament was not used. Not were instruments only tuned into a chosen marker that defines the hertz pitch of the A 4 note, but there are also a lot of other temperaments. It means that the ratio and distance between notes are not equal. This brings whole new dimensions and moods to music. But its difficulty is in the fact that it’s not universal, easily transposable and you’d have to retune your instruments all the time. For example, if an organ music piece was composed in Werckmeister temperament of F# Major, there was no way that you could go straight into playing a song that was written for A Major meantone temperament. The whole instrument had to be retuned just to play the other pieces because the unequal temperament resonates in a certain way, on a certain scale.
Now what people are forgetting with the 432Hz hype is that this is not about taking your favourite pop song and pitch-shifting it down to get to sweet and natural 432Hz. All that’s going to do is shift the place of A4 note and its co-resonant A notes to 432 if you can even find the correct decimal of cents for lowering it. It’s not going to change the fact that the song is in equal temperament. Also, if the song is written on a scale that doesn’t contain the A note, the chances are that there isn’t going to be a single occurrence of a 432Hz note in the entire sound clip.
You get the rumoured music magic if A4=432Hz AND the music is played in the so-called Pythagorean tuning which is very much responsible of what the resonance of two simultaneous notes sound like together. This makes it impossible to digitally convert songs afterwards, it has to be played in a certain way from the start.
What comes to perception, lower frequencies have longer sound waves. Even at the same volume, we perceive lower frequency to be quieter than a higher frequency. In comparison, the higher one will always sound tenser because of that. It’s logical – the sound wave is also tighter.
Super low frequencies can make the whole ground resonate and it feels as pressure in the body. Because the wave is really long and powerful, it feels as if it was “carrying you”. High, super short waved frequencies are used for intrusion. We use ultrasound technology in various things because the short wave can intrude into microscopic constructions, such as human tissue. It could be that the “carrying feeling” of a long wave creates a sense of safety when compared to a higher frequency that is more intrusive to tissues. However, when the low frequencies go to the range of infrasounds, it becomes a stress factor. In nature, infrasounds are produced by geological activity such as volcanic activity, earthquakes, thunder, floods and tsunamis, which are all a threat to living beings. You’ve probably heard of the phenomenon of how animals often seem to know about a natural disaster way before humans do, and they flee or start to behave anxiously. It’s possible that they can detect the geological infrasounds which are “hardcoded” to cause a stress reaction in the brain, evoking the animal to take action that could save its life when the newly started disaster reaches the area.
I do have perfect pitch, and realized after I converted a video file and uploaded it on Youtube that the pitch had been lowered and the performance was not representative of the original. Comparable to looking into a twisted mirror in the fun house at a carnival. It distorts reality. I took it off. If this was done in an analog format like a reel to reel or turn table the variation or stretching of the sound waves are spread over an infinite number of points so the performance would be similar to detuning a guitar . But if 432 is between notes on the scale referenced to 440 then you are hearing music, made up of tones that your ears have never heard before, assuming most all musicians try and play in tune as close as possible. Musicians know that off pitch notes sound awful. I could detect in my performance at the 432 hz digital conversion that the additional time added was not a continuous evenly spaced addition of points but a stretching of certain parts of the music so that it sounded very jerky to me , and took on the characteristics of jazz, in which you learn to lay off the beat and sound like you are behind the rhythm of the song intentionally. The pitch however in jazz stayed at 440 and the other relative frequencies were in tune also. So only the rhythm was affected not the pitch. I concluded that jazz was the first attempt before the easily manipulated digital media was available to alter the music in some way where it was not as genuine or a true representation of what our incredible minds and bodies can do when we attempt to approach perfection. I was the best baritone player in Florida my last two years in high school and my intonation and timing were integral to giving people goose bumps with an instrument not normally used as a solo instrument in front of the band. As my band director used me many times in that capacity, and people to this day remember the sound I attained. To go from a 440 a to the next relative note is 24.7 hz lower or 415.3 hz to get to the g#. Dropping it to 432 puts at a 1/4 tone or some other weird ratio that would be closer to some notes in Chinese music which does use 1/4 tones, if I remember correctly. I will not use it or listen to it because it sounded like shit to me. I believe it is Satanic. An abomination.
Jesus CHrist showed me the answer. The ratio between each note is approx 1 to 1.0594. 12 notes and then the octave or double frequency.
I found some amazingly cool stuff. The frequencies we tune our instruments to, is based on the metric system because all the wave lengths are all measured in Metric centimeters.. See chart below. All whole numbers in centimeters up to approx. 350 hertz or cycles per second.
The man who first instigated the metric system has some interesting credentials, Satanic I believe, but consider what Ive learned.
First secret code book in English , one of first books about a trip to the moon, Chairman of first meeting of the Royal Society.
Bishop John Wilkins was, among other things: Warden of Wadham College, Oxford; Master of Trinity College, Cambridge; married to Oliver Cromwell’s sister; writer of the first book in English on secret codes; writer of one of the first science fiction books about a trip to the Moon; and convener and chairman of the first meeting of the Royal Society, still one of the world’s most important science academies.
More interesting below, it was based on accurate measurements of the Earth or time around the sun. So when the Great flood and then the plagues of Egypt happened the earth slowed down from it’s original 360 day year the exact number of degrees in a circle and the perfect system that was created perfect and self sustaining forever.
Wilkins’ short proposal for a ‘universal measure’ in 1668 contained almost all the elements of the International System of Units (SI), the modern metric system. Wilkins devised a decimal system with a universal standard of length, preferably based on accurately measuring the Earth or time, and wrote that this standard length could then be used to define area, volume, and ‘weight’* using distilled rainwater. However, Wilkins did not use the word metre and he did not use metric prefixes; these ideas came later.
I felt this revelation months ago and I think the girl who prompted me to study this was an angel, because when I showed her my initial conclusions she said. It’s time for me to go now. So if the Satanist changed music to the frequency of the Earth and are now trying to slow it down again to 432 A even lower, Which is half the frequency of Saturn which has an 864 year cycle. Saturn represents Satan. Then I will restore it back and make all my annoited music as it was in the beginning.The original frequency of 360 hertz falls half way between F and F#. So my E or bottom string on my guitar is going to be tuned up 1 and 1/2 steps.No longer E at some weird frequency that doesn’t divide to even numbers up through infinity like 360 will. but half way between F and F# at some multiple of 360. 45 , 90, 180, 360, 720, 1440, 2880, 5760 The original worship frequencies of Yahova. I can get pretty close with my electronic tuner but I’ll try and find a frequency meter on line so I can set it exact. They shifted the notes half way in between where they were originally. This also is a better range for many songs I sing. I can barely hit the E or bottom string at 329.63 hertz as it is right now, but at 360 I can belt it out. halleluiah. This is in tune with Yahovas spirit and Yashuas and I believe will start the out pouring promised in the first month. The former and the latter rain. Let me know what you think.
Note Frequency (Hz) Wavelength (cm)
C0 16.35 2100.
C#0/Db0 17.32 1990.
D0 18.35 1870.
D#0/Eb0 19.45 1770.
E0 20.60 1670.
F0 21.83 1580.
F#0/Gb0 23.12 1490.
G0 24.50 1400.
G#0/Ab0 25.96 1320.
A0 27.50 1250.
A#0/Bb0 29.14 1180.
B0 30.87 1110.
C1 32.70 1050.
C#1/Db1 34.65 996.
D1 36.71 940.
D#1/Eb1 38.89 887.
E1 41.20 837.
F1 43.65 790.
F#1/Gb1 46.25 746.
G1 49.00 704.
G#1/Ab1 51.91 665.
A1 55.00 627.
A#1/Bb1 58.27 592.
B1 61.74 559.
C2 65.41 527.
C#2/Db2 69.30 498.
D2 73.42 470.
D#2/Eb2 77.78 444.
E2 82.41 419.
F2 87.31 395.
F#2/Gb2 92.50 373.
G2 98.00 352.
G#2/Ab2 103.83 332.
A2 110.00 314.
A#2/Bb2 116.54 296.
B2 123.47 279.
C3 130.81 264.
C#3/Db3 138.59 249.
D3 146.83 235.
D#3/Eb3 155.56 222.
E3 164.81 209.
F3 174.61 198.
F#3/Gb3 185.00 186.
G3 196.00 176.
G#3/Ab3 207.65 166.
A3 220.00 157.
A#3/Bb3 233.08 148.
B3 246.94 140.
C4 261.63 132.
C#4/Db4 277.18 124.
D4 293.66 117.
D#4/Eb4 311.13 111.
E4 329.63 105.
F4 349.23 98.8
F#4/Gb4 369.99 93.2
G4 392.00 88.0
G#4/Ab4 415.30 83.1
A4 440.00 78.4
A#4/Bb4 466.16 74.0
B4 493.88 69.9
C5 523.25 65.9
C#5/Db5 554.37 62.2
D5 587.33 58.7
D#5/Eb5 622.25 55.4
E5 659.26 52.3
F5 698.46 49.4
F#5/Gb5 739.99 46.6
G5 783.99 44.0
G#5/Ab5 830.61 41.5
A5 880.00 39.2
A#5/Bb5 932.33 37.0
B5 987.77 34.9
C6 1046.50 33.0
C#6/Db6 1108.73 31.1
D6 1174.66 29.4
D#6/Eb6 1244.51 27.7
E6 1318.51 26.2
F6 1396.91 24.7
F#6/Gb6 1479.98 23.3
G6 1567.98 22.0
G#6/Ab6 1661.22 20.8
A6 1760.00 19.6
A#6/Bb6 1864.66 18.5
B6 1975.53 17.5
C7 2093.00 16.5
C#7/Db7 2217.46 15.6
D7 2349.32 14.7
D#7/Eb7 2489.02 13.9
E7 2637.02 13.1
F7 2793.83 12.3
F#7/Gb7 2959.96 11.7
G7 3135.96 11.0
G#7/Ab7 3322.44 10.4
A7 3520.00 9.8
A#7/Bb7 3729.31 9.3
B7 3951.07 8.7
C8 4186.01 8.2
C#8/Db8 4434.92 7.8
D8 4698.64 7.3
D#8/Eb8 4978.03 6.9
Wavelength is dependent on frequency, but also the speed of sound in air, which varies according to air temperature, pressure and the precise mix of gases that it comprises. Sound travels at different speeds through different substances. It travels faster in denser substances making the wavelength shorter.
What value for the speed of sound did you use? And have you tried adjusting the speed of sound in your calculations to see whether you still get whole numbers of centimetres?
Thanks for sharing this study. Great post! Despite what some critics are commenting, the fact is that you tested exactly whats in the title, that is “pitch shifting” not original 432Hz vs original 440Hz 🙂
I just have one question to Randolph Wyatt Cain
I didnt get it, so you are tunning your instruments to which reference?
modern frequency = 440Hz,
half satan = 432Hz
or Jesus Christ = 360Hz ?
This is the completed work for the only perfect Musical scale.
A is not equal to 440 HZ
A is equal to 478.1064227590136906178054193222569810095262459059370739405648424772 HZ
This is the prefect Fibonacci code given me by the Spirit of Yashua Perfect Frequency Multiplyer PFM= 1.0594630943592952645621
22 digits after the decimal point. # letters in Hebrew Alphabet, DNA helix, 2 times # of dimensions in universe.
Here is what I was shown with much tribulation and dozens of hours over the last couple days.
Square root of 144,000=
379.4733192202055198 HZ This note is an F and a perfect frequency PF=Perfect Frequency-379.4733192202055198 HZ
You DIVIDE PF by PFM to get every note below 379.4733192202055198 HZ
Nothing below will multiply back to the same number.after dividing.
You MUlTIPLY PF by PFM to get every note above 379.4733192202055198 HZ
Everything above will multiply and divide back and forth to the same numbers
Some ring back and forth and count down 1 digit at a time as you keep going back and forth
Some ring back and forth only once,some twice. I just did the Bottom to Top string of the Guitar for now. E being lowest and highest string.
This was amazing.
Wait til you hear music played in this key. Heavenly reality.
Enjoy. All praise to Yashua the Messiah. Jesus Christ All Honor and Power and Glory for ever and ever. Amen
Go to middle of calculations where you find this F and look up and down.
This is the lowest E string on the Guitar.
126.6340275223295086752964589127069970351333312486662555649829552681 A #
1.0594630943592952645621 wont multiply back up as everything above here.
478.1064227590136906178054193222569810095262459059370739405648424772 ————- !————————–A
716.3502367200247107247675205719727027157012689448554361099069911266 ! F
758.946638440411039602361420362595716843643255312579916290893903504 ——-!————————- F#
Thanks for the comments.
@Randolph, Just a practical question. How do I tune my guitar to an accuracy of 64 decimal places for a given note? My tuner only gives me integer values.
Haha… so great! I love your comments. Randolph is either a troll/prank or else I am going to hide in my house from now on.
The level of insanity and obsession is dumbfounding. It must be fakery, or else a prophetic transmission from a lunatic asylum.
Hey Randolph, read the Wiki page for “Concert Pitch” and you will find that organs in a cold building vs a warm building are ±5Hz.
Guitars cannot be tuned and stay within 1Hz for more than a few notes.
Should all music be composed in Absynth with microtonal digital precision or else it’s not music?
Watch “Secrets in Plain Sight” (long documentary, which shows origins of second, mile, degrees, and the occult meanings and origins of all of the world’s major cities, in their layouts and central buildings).
This will show anyone who actually watches it and absorbs the mathematical info, that 432Hz is based off of nature and the resonance of this physical universe.
To be more specific, I am not saying that 432Hz itself [that one note, being “A above middle C” (256Hz), is somehow divine on its own.
We use equal temperament in most western instruments, but if we were able to accomplish Pythagorean intervals, with 432Hz (or 216, or 864) as the base, then most of the notes would be harmonic number series. And they behave interestingly when you reduce the numbers down to 1 number, (this is not just a “numerology” technique, it’s a form of fractal mathematics that has been understood for thousands of years.
C = 1Hz.. (1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024 etc…) which is a harmonic number series. It’s binary.
This makes the note C (at A-432) based upon the second and binary division of the second.
D = 9Hz.. (4.5, 9, 18, 36, 72, 144, 288, 576Hz etc…) which all add up to 9 (even 4.5Hz and 2.25Hz add up to 9).
This is a harmonic number series based off of the second in divisions of 9.
E = 81Hz… (20.25, 40.5, 81, 162, 324, 648, 1296 etc…) all add up to 9 and 81 is obviously 9×9.
Db = 540Hz (33.75, 67.5, 135, 270, 540, 1080, 2160, 4320, 8640 etc…) all numbers reducing to 9 and tying into divisions of the 360º of the circle [1.5, 0.75 (3/4), 0.375 (3/8) etc…].
These notes are just 432 x 10, 5, 2.5, 1.25, .625 (5/8), .3125 (5/16).
G = 3Hz (3, 6, 12, 24, 48, 96, 192, 384, 768, 1536 etc…).
This note’s Hz values cycle back & forth from adding up to 3, then adding up to 6. Also a harmonic number series based on 3 and the second divided by 1/3, 1/6, 1/12 etc…
B = 243Hz (and 486, 972, 1944, 3888, 7776 etc…) all add up to 9.
This is how most of the notes are when 432 is used as the base. It’s simple math heaven, not overly-complicated.
Also, in that documentary “Secrets In Plain Sight” they heavily mention 216 (and 2160), 864 (86400 seconds in a day, sun’s Ø is 864,000 miles) and 1728 (1.728) as ancient sacred ratios, but they never connect this with the octaves of A @ 432.
In other words, I just laid out Tesla’s secret to the 3, 6 and 9 when he said “If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.”
A = 432Hz (9)
E = 342Hz (9)
B = 243Hz (9)
C=1Hz (binary sequence)
G=3Hz & 6Hz
F= 86Hz (43, 86, 172, 344, 688 etc…)
adding up to a cycle of 7, 5, 1, 2, 4, 8, 7, 5, 1 etc… (skips 3, 6 & 9)
This is the pattern in any number divided by 7 (1/7 =.142857___repeating)
Look at Marko Rodin’s “circle of 9” combined with the Enneagram diagram for the meaning of this pattern.
The Enneagram has a triangle shown between 3, 6 & 9 and then a symmetrical pattern going from 1, 4, 2, 8, 5, 7 (repeating).
This is the secret of the Enneagram.
Also the note C does a similar pattern in its binary sequence, [1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128 etc… add up to 1, 2, 4, 8, 7 (16), 5 (32), 1 (64), 2 (128), 4 (256), 8 (512), etc…]
This is why in Wikipedia, 432Hz base is considered the Philosopher’s tuning.
This is what Pythagoras, (and in turn Plato and Da Vinci) were spending all of their time figuring out.
So don’t overlook 432Hz base, from a silly pitch-shifting plugin fail experiment that only sought out to correct people’s belief in silly YouTube videos where someone has pitch-shifted a song and thinks it sounds better.
That is not a fair representation of 432 and this article acts like it debunks the 432 mystique, while it does no such thing.
It is not attainable in the flesh/ carnal mind. If you are not a follower of Jesus Christ and use music to play, and sin, you never will hear it as it is inspirit and truth. If you believe we are to keep the commandments as Yashua taught us, the creator who invented the perfect musical scale, as you get the first string close as possible, and than tune by ear the last 5 strings,, then the Spirit of he who created this scale get’s involved, and it becomes a supernatural tool in Yashua’s hands, and he pours out his spirit on all flesh. As it is written. In those / these days, I will pour out my spirit on all flesh. It can be done, just like overcoming sin, sickness and death by Faith in Jesus Chris, Yashua the Messiah. If you have faith as small as a mustard seed you can move a mountain. That’s enough to get this done too.
I’m not really sure that answers my question. But hey, top marks for trying . . .
Also, I’m not sure what you mean by, “If you are not a follower of Jesus Christ and use music to play, and sin, you never will hear it as it is inspirit and truth.” Seems as though you are contradicting yourself about something. Does this mean I can only read music to escape the Devil’s clutched?
Thank you for your reply. I just lost power and a long 100 line reply that explained a few more things and I’ll try and duplicate it after I have time to read your paper. My power chord came undone and my battery is shot so I get no warning before I lose documents I’m working on. I’ll be replying again later. Thanks again. Few see the significance of the math at the 64th decimal point which is the most exciting thing to me next to the sounds they produce in the alignment of the harmonics.
I am tuning the 5th note in the major scale, (F) to the square root of 144,000. Approx. 379.4733 hz. This puts A at 478.106. That is about half way between the B flat,( 466 hz) and B, ( 493.88 hz) if you have A=440.
That causes the harmonics to ring truer and allows me to tune my guitar by ear as well as i could before with a tuner. I’m not sure what the exact physics that cause this ease of tuning are but i just know it is a noticeable difference.
440 hz only became popular once Hitler rose to power because he found it caused the population to be more agitated and ready for war. After that it moved to America for the same thing. 440hz only reaches 8 octaves where 432hz reaches 12 including the heart. Generally the only people promoting 440hz have little connection to their own heart, or are a part of this cruel system that has been put in place. Maybe 1/100 songs actually sound better in 440hz, but its not worth the impact on society and your emotional state.
Congratulations, Trevor, you win the attracting-the-most-comments-from-raving-loonies prize 🙂
@Robin, does that include you?
Guilty as charged. Wibble.
My work is hard to see in this narrow format
Can you make it wide so the design can be seen better?
You are confusing what is 432 hz tuning!
Pitch shifting a recording -8hz will NOT give you 432hz tuning.
When you tune instruments to 432hz,
The octave, or edo12 interval changes.
Higher up: 864 hz
Lower: 216 hz
The effect is acomulative up and down.
So the 12 intervals in an edo, are different notes than in 440 hz!!!
You missed my point. 432 is half of 864. That is the freq. or cycle of Saturn. Saturn is a type of Satan who has all the foundations of the world out of alignment. The freq. I arrived at led by Jesus Christ is the freq. that is used in the heavenly realm and will be used here and only that freq.When Yashua / Jesus returns as a Ruling King. 432 can’t have the perfect relationship of the harmonics that the square root of 144,000 as a starting point has.No other frequency in nature can have it. It is unique.
Not a debate, a fact that i’ve been tortured and abused because it was one of the things to be restored before Yashua’s return. Thanks for your response.
@Asher W do you have a reputable link for the unenlightened?
The only link between God and Man Jesus Christ. Don’t judge Jesus by those who claim to follow him. Most will be rejected because they don’t love each other but are hateful and greedy. If you want to know truth you have to be able to admit it might have been kept from you by many who want you dead and in hell. I died and went to hell for a few moments a week ago. I promise you it is not a desirable destination. I went because I had never studied to find out that my pot smoking was offensive to God, and told many it was ok. I was dead wrong. I know it is hard to believe in other dimensions but if science say’s there are 11 of them, what do you think they are there for? Some are spiritual prisons that house rebellious spirits that do what ever they want and care not for any but their own selfish desires. If this is foolishness to you, so sad. I can only share what I know is true through my experiences and the word of God, the Bible. Look for your self and I’ll be glad to answer any questions. It won’t be long til you believe. Will you be on the right side is the only real question.
Just look at basic music theory and see that an octave is either double, or half
Of the reference tone.
The resulting intervals are different.
Pitch shifting shifts all the notes and sounds at the same time of a recording from 440 to 432, I stress, this is not 432hz music. ! It will only work for a single note: A.
The intervals of each note up and below
Are not 8hz anymore…
Just do the simple math…
@A4= 432 hz then A5= 864 hz
Then A6 = 1728 hz !
On a5 octave is now 16hz and a6 32 hz!! The effect is compound! So if you plot all note values for 440 tuning, and compare with 432, you will get very different tones the further up and down the scale…. A simple software pitch shifter can not do this. The instruments have to be tuned that way, then recorded. Then you can try to be scientific about it in a poll… However, music is ART, and the 12 equal template meant is just a convention!
There are all kinds of tuning systems!
All have advantages and limitations.
12 edo is just a compromise.
I prefer to be a free thinker, and tune my instruments to whatever I think is beautiful and aligned with nature and maths…. Not because a government authority dictates what a note should or should not be.
You don’t pitch-shift in Hz anyway people.
You pitch shift -32 cents, which puts 440 down to 432 and 880 down to 864.
It’s closer than you’re going to get with most guitars anyhow.
No music is perfectly IN PITCH and that’s what makes our ears happy.
This whole experiment is pretty irrelevant anyway..
I have been pitch shifting vinyl (DJ’ing) for 20 years and it doesn’t matter where you put the Pitch slder on a Technics SL1200… People are still going to love it the same..
But that sounds NOTHING like the silly pitch-shifter plugin that this guy used.
People is not who I want to please. They can be pleased with SOS. Sit on a shingle. My aim was to please a perfect God with his own perfect musical scale. If you have any math skills you could see that the probability of those numbers all multiplying out to 64 digits with decreasing digits by one while multiplying up and dividing back, at the very last digit, on certain half steps is beyond the probability of any random chance. It won’t work at any other freq. It’s like pulling Excalibur sword out of the stone. Only the one who made it can do it. I AM that I AM.
Randolph, you are pushing everyone else besides yourself (even other Christians) away from God.
Your desperate need for your own glorification is evident, despite the fact that you are giving all of this glory to God, you are putting yourself up on this pedestal, while putting God in a box (of numbers).
It’s sad and kind of disturbing to those who can see the insecurity and need behind your projection of your obsessive need to dominate, while acheiving your God’s favor.
You are doing your God a dis-service by self-electing yourself as representative.
Go read about Paul and how he had to go away until he chilled out and stopped burning people with his intense passion. That is your story right now.
Read this and reflect on yourself… Your scale is nothing more than hallucinations associated with brain chemical imbalance due to your response to trauma, stress and perceived-threats in the world.
If you can know with out studying and proving my math is flawed, and I can’t know by spending dozens of hours and many mistakes to come to a mathematical proof of my Musical scale, then your’ conclusion is based on blind faith, and better than my conclusion of testing and trying the proof. A reasonable man would agree that you are the chemically unbalanced. This scale is ref. to the number of overcomers that stand with Jesus Christ when he returns, 144000. That represents the pinnacle of mans reality as being in the image and likeness of his creator. If you are not willing to do the math, then please go back to your chemically unbalanced and blind faith conclusions and enjoy what little time you have left. If blind lead the blind, they all fall in the ditch. Here this G# and A that multiply and then divide back and forth 7 time before it gives the same answer up and back.
i took most of the digits which are confusing you out so you can see the pattern easier. If you are so brilliant with out study, you are a god unto yourself. Leave it, and let those willing to study do so. I’ve tried to present it logically so you can understand it. I won’t waste my time on you any more.
Isn’t there a single person out there who understands that since a second is of arbitrary duration, that any frequency measured in Hz is also arbitrary, and has no meaningful relationship to anything in nature? Holy shit, I mean if seconds were ~1.85185% longer, everything that is 440 Hz now would then be 432 Hz. Would you then be saying that we should be dropping the A to what would, using current standards, be ~424 Hz? Absolute pitch doesn’t matter, because it’s all completely artificial and arbitrary to begin with.
Seconds are arbitrary, yes, but when instruments a tuned to 432, the ratios are different!
Let me clear this up for you. A: Seconds are arbitrary measurements to begin with. B: Hz are measured in cycles per second. The conclusion?
quote: “Let me clear this up for you. A: Seconds are arbitrary measurements to begin with. B: Hz are measured in cycles per second. The conclusion?”
440HZ could be 123xyz in “venusian”, True, Hz is arbitrary, so are just “numbers”….! HOWEVER, the ratios ARE NOT. What i have been trying to explain here is that when you tune an instrument to 432HZ ( or 199999.231 FHZZzty@ in “Jupiter” ) the ratios are different, because the octaves double or half the reference tone… and the resulting ratios ( in 432 hz, and other non equal temparement tuning systems ) are closer to universal ratios / fractions. Read “proportions”.
The best way to visualize this is to see a table of 432HZ vs 440HZ that includes the resulting ratios ( read thirds, fourths, fifths, etc ) under 440hz the ratios are more impure, and contain aproximations ( irrational numbers ), in 432Hs the ratios are much closer, some, spot on! However all equal tempered tunings are not perfect, hence the discussion of alternative tuning such as the tuning by Maria Renold, or Just intonation….and others. Under Just intonation, or Pythagorean, the ratios are perfect, but only in some keys!
Relationship between notes, being the very basic one, an octave, were say C1 is half of C2, is still present in both 440 and 432, but the other ratios are not!
By the way, a “second of time” is SOOOO aribitrary that if you really want to get crazy, think about this, look at how gravity affects the speed of time. Under basic relativity, time gets slower, closer to a source of gravity…. so a second will be longer at the ground floor ( slower time ), and shorter ( faster time ) at the tip of a tall building. So Gentlemen, 440 AND 432 tuning are all different for each floor in the building.
What does NOT change, are the ratios. A golden ratio, or 1/2, 3/4, etc. are the same in each level anywere in Earth, in Venus and Jupiter, even if space-time is curved, a ratio is a ratio. ( 3/4 = 3/4 )
Musical beauty is a language based on mathematical ratios, including silence, and tempo, timbre, etc.
( it also apply to visual arts, architecture, etc )
In different tuning systems, you get different RATIOS.
( and ALL notes are different, not just 8HZ!!!! ).
Most people ears, or eyes, will respond to clues, such as golden ratio, or 1.5 or 2, or 0.75…. etc.
but not to say: 19.3456779092372752…. you see? listen?
in different reference tuning frequencies ( A=X Hz or A=”any cultural frequency reference” ) you get ratios that are different for each note! ( please do not confuse all this with slowing the pitch of a recording by 8Hz, that HAS NOTHING TO DO with 432Hz based music ).Those apps or websites that just slow down music by 8hz, or pitch shift the reference tone are NOT 432 Hz music! ( the two methods above keep the same impure ratios in 440 Hz )
PITCH SHIFTING RECORDED music ( digital or analouge ) by -8Hz has NOTHING TO DO with 432hz music!!!
All the above is math, factual math, not my opinion, nor spiritual numerology, religion, cultural bios, prophetical info or Biblical stuff.
Just basic musical math. Universal. Under any time reference, and numerical system.
Asher ( ashera )
Can you explain what ratios are different? I can not see how any ratio of musical intervals, like the octave, fifth or third, would be any different with A on 432Hz. Because any musical interval, is defined by the ratio of the two – no matter what Hz the A is tuned or notes comprise the interval for that matter.
But maybe I don’t understand what you are calling a ratio.
If you want to improve music try tuning to Maria Renold twelve fifth system!
A compromise between equal temperament and Pythagorean.
YESSSS! Finally somebody gets it. This whole 432 vs 440 thing is meant to be applied to a source analogue signal (acoustic guitar) and it is arguable whether or not this is even true because of the arbitrary nature of measurement. Now people on youtube with little or no knowledge have tried to apply this method to digital post recorded files with the expectation of a more “natural” sounding result which is just………well it’s just futile.
Sorry can the above comment be deleted, it was meant to reply to reasonable human but ended up under asher…..my bad.
YESSSS! I GET THAT! And i am so relieved that someone has finally pointed this out. This whole 432 vs 440 thing is meant to be applied to a source analogue signal (acoustic guitar) and it is arguable whether or not this is even true because of the arbitrary nature of measurement. Now people on youtube with little or no knowledge have tried to apply this method to digital post recorded files with the expectation of a more “natural” sounding result which is just………well it’s just futile.
All you have to do is check the waveforms of the cycles. It is clear that 432Hz is in perfect harmony and also perfectly divisiable by 3! 432/3=144, 440/3= 146.666, What .666 go figure! LOL!
I love the work you’ve done here. Something I’ve been trying to get people to understand for a while now. Even back when I was all for A432, it wasn’t because of a “spiritual” feeling or whatnot, but rather because I was searching for a geometrical or otherwise horological basis for a concert pitch standard that meshed with modern timekeeping (and the “sacred geometry” surrounding 432 was alluring). I wrote about it, but realized later that A432 is wrong. A = 426.67Hz when using 5 Limit Tuning, and sounds far far better chord-wise that way than anything in equal temperament. And my justifications for picking out this frequency and temperament are in sound (no pun intended) horology, which tempo is based on to begin with. Please check out my ePub article “A Horological and Mathematical Defense of Philosophical Pitch” (or as a Facebook ‘note’ on the FB page by the same name).
Just one more short note. I was musically trained from an early age. 6 years old for the violin and 10 I began the trumpet. At 12 in Orlando Florida at lake Como elementary school, the Jr. High School band director Bill Raley came and gave us a hearing test designed to determine our ability to distinguish between pitches that were very close together and weather one was above or below the frequency of the previous and next pith played through a head set under controlled conditions. I was immediately singled out because I believe now, that I heard every fraction of a difference and the proper relationship through the whole frequency range and no one else may have ever achieved that result with out an error. I became the first baritone player in 25 years to make the Florida all state band from the Junior High school three years late. I then by the 11th grade was the first chair baritone player in the Florida all state band and held that seat in my 12th grade year, despite the fact I was lured into drugs and alcohol which didn’t seem to hurt my ability enough to let any one overcome my obvious superiority on that instrument compared to all others in the state and perhaps the country and world if they had chosen elite band members on that scale. A talent that I was given along with the drive and patience to make it something that drew and demanded attention and recognition. This eventually led to my desire to question the frequencies that we were given by law in the US and around the world referenced to the metric system and wave lengths measured in centimeters. I always hated the metric measuring system for some reason. I’m sure this scale had a lot to do with it though I never dreamed they were related until I did a little research. Every good gift comes from the true God through Jesus Christ. I used to practice over and over and over the same things expecting a different result. Funny that that is the definition many use for what insanity is. Doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Practice doesn’t make perfect but perfect practice and perseverance does.
I just read the first part of your paper and watched the short video. You do look like a saxophone player. Nothing derogatory implied just that people who play certain instrument tend to have a certain look, with exceptions to the rule like most things observed. Before I came upon the idea of 144,000 being related to the perfect scale I was trying to resolve the problem as if the original orbit of the Earth around the sun and it’s rotation measured in hours and seconds. was a 360 day year not 365.2421. This brought me to an adjusted second that was= 1.0145613888888888883 seconds. Dividing 360 by this number gave me 354.83313670576310911372111.0145613888888888883 hz as my starting point. This also sounded far better than A=440 but the math didn’t show any signs of perfection as the last work I did. Many of the deatails of my experiences in all disciplines have led me down a path I never imagined as is most revelation of truth that opposes the traditional and other views that we are told must be true though they have never been proved and in fact contradict with empirical evidence. If this video I’m sharing with you doesn’t radically change your understanding of every thing we’ve been lied to about I’ll be surprised, since you already had the inner desire to question the worship frequencies which is what all music is supposed to be. We were created for the praise of the glory of the one whose image we are in. Yes God looks like us. Not some mutant alien life that seeded us but no one wants to answer who crated them . Random chance is thrown out the window when the truth that systems of such complexity have and ever can happen by chance and random mutations. It’s an insult to the mind we have been given to examine the observations we see and believe what they attest to. Just like the computer driven animations of movies have advanced to the point where we can not distinguish between the real and the animation the truths we have been fed about our observable universe have been twisted to the point that dark matter which can not be found because it is a lie is the only key to the puzzle that we are told has to exist or else we can’t exist by chance and that is the only acceptable science/ religion the NWO allows without scorn and contempt. They would have to agree we are the center of the universe with the true evidence. Keep an open mind and enjoy waking up to the truth. I just did in the past few weeks. Let me know your reaction. Nice to meet you.
Your experiment seems more about subjective preferences rather then proving some scientific preference of difference between the tuning systems. If you take into account that preference is really subjective and not objective; there is no more science- much how devious corporation manipulate statistics. Our preferences are based on individual experience, history, culture, social factors ect.; all I am saying is there is room to debate your scientific findings for preference based on what your test subjects were accustomed to listening to-which in most cases would be 440! if a test subject grows up and is surrounded by 440 they have grown accustomed to it, so there preference would obviously be what they know! Ask a test subject who has grown up listening to eastern music tuning systems….they might have a different preference! I think your experiment proves nothing except that north american people prefer what they know!!!
@kelsey I wouldn’t have put it in quite those words, but hey!!
The A= =440 was forced on us by men who devised the metric system.All the academies of science have corrupted truth to promote the agenda that has caused all the suffering of man in the last 100 years. Order out of Chaos is their MOA. The music is chaotic also if you have a trained ear and try and tune a guitar referenced to A-440. If you ever listened to a person sing out of tune and it sounded good to you then anything would. Most tone deaf people that can’t carry a tune could care less if music was harmonious. If you have published any music in a public forum i would be eager to hear what your ability to tell the difference is. I was the best at what music I produced compared to every other musician on the same instrument in the state of Florida. That was not by chance but because I can hear and produce, even with the corrupted scale a sound that is in tune and recognizably superior to others , even the untrained. Thanks for your comment. If you have any proof that you can tell the difference between a good and bad composition I’d listen to it. Send me a link with proof of your musical accomplishments please.
This doesn’t prove anything, except that pitch shifting is wrong. I’m the designer of world’s first 432 Hz music server / streamer, the 432 EVO. This high-end device competes with high-end streamers such as the SOtM SMS-1000, for which we also developed a 432 Hz plugin.
Did you study how pitch shift actually works ? Did you read the code of typical pitch shift DSP ? It’s horrible. There’s detail loss, soundstage is less, upper harmonics sound fake, real acoustic instruments sound fake. We came to that conclusion already 3 years ago.
The correct method is the use the same idea in the digital domain, as slowing down a record player in the analog domain, so a 440 Hz tone becomes 432 Hz, and the tempo also goes down by 1.82% . This is no issue, those who watch a PAL DVD of a US movie, will play it at +4% and nobody complains about that.
In the digital domain this can be done using the speed or (playback) rate method, which both slows down the tempo as well as the pitch accordingly.
When the speed/rate method is implemented using the correct DSP, 90% will prefer the 432 Hz version. We did a test with 60 candidates and 58 preferred the 432 Hz version. This was with the foobar rate method as part of the soundtouch plugin set to -1.82%. This method is even not perfect, with some tracks there’s still artefacts, very rare but it sometimes happens.
Maria Renold did the test with real instruments and 2000 persons, she came to the conclusion that 90% preferred 432 Hz.
Everybody who visits our shop is convinced by the effect of 432 Hz. Typically one in ten hesitates. For the 90% it is day and night. Once you’re used to it, you will never go back to 440 Hz. I went even as far a create a HTPC in my lab that can play movies in A=432 Hz and also slow down the frame rate below 24P, so that the frame rate is synced to the reduced playback speed.
At the same time, most members of the 432 Hz community still use the flawed pitch shift method instead of the rate/speed method. All the youtube video’s with 432 Hz versions of 440 Hz tracks are wrong. I try to convince them, but they keep posting their video’s with the wrong method. There’s much disinfo on the internet,
What is the correct method ? I mailed my friend Roel Hollander who updated his site about 432 Hz live playback, with the correct settings for foobar. Here it is:
For our 432 EVO which does realtime conversion of A=440 to A=432 without having to save a second version of the file, we wrote our complete own DSP method, which has no audible artefacts. Our classical lovers and Henk & Marja from 6moons even requested /remarked that they would like be to set the base frequency for the conversion, as some orchestra’s play in A=441 up to A=445.
We implemented those changes, so they can choose from A=440 up to A=445 as base frequency. One example is the open goldberg variations, which use a piano tuned to A=443 Hz. For classical music, it is wrong to assume it is performed in A=440. For most other Western music, it is safe to assume it is made in A=440.
When the music is correctly retuned, you will hear certain resonances that do never occur with A=440. But when you slow down open goldberg variations with 1.82%, it will not work, as the 443 Hz base frequency will become 435 Hz, which doesn’t resonate to your inner’s ear working.
So the 432 Hz effect has nothing to do with slowing down a record, but map the A to a frequency that is natural to our ears.
I’m happy that you did this study, as it proves what I already know. You could do the test again with the speed/rate method. I can even provide you with demo files via wetransfer that are 100% artefact free. If you want to setup test groups, I can help.
Frederic Vanden Poel you just made my week and blew my mind at the same time!!
You are saying EXACTLY what I said, except you have added the value of 1.82% length increase to the song/audio file, which I didn’t know the hard value. But I have been saying the same thing as you. Even using vinyl records as the example like you did.
I am so happy to read your post and many of the recent posts by people who really know what is happening and have the inquisitive and intelligent nature to see through the BS and find actual honest answers!
Love your post so much.
I am re-convinced about 432Hz-base again after reading your comment.
Ok, guys, some of you do not understand tuning and the equal tempered system. Slowing down a recording via Technology or via slowing down an LP is NOT 432 hz = A music!!!! All is going to do is to slow down the music so that note, and only that note is part of the 432hz tuning! The other 11 tones are going to have the same ratios as 440!!!!
To obtain 432, or other system, you have to tune the instruments to 432, that will change the ratios across the whole spectrum.!!!
The issue here is not “xyz” hz ( add your fav number ) as some people well pointed, Hz is an albitrary ratio of once cycle to a second. There us nothing sacred or magical about a second!
Now, ratios, proportions, golden ratio, Fibonacci, etc, etc ARE universal constants of beauty and order, in maths, arts, geometry, architecture, phisics, and music.
To Asher w: What do you mean that slowing down a recording will only change the A note’s frequency but the other 11 tones will still be in the ratio of 440? How do you see that as happening? All tones would get a shift. The ratio between notes will be the same. An octave will still be an octave. Other notes will be on a different Hz as well.
To Frederic Vanden Poel :
“So the 432 Hz effect has nothing to do with slowing down a record, but map the A to a frequency that is natural to our ears.”
I’m am curious about this part. Is it 432 Hz that is natural to our ears? Or is ti all the frequencies that would be used in an equal tempered tuning with A=432 Hz that would be “natural” to our ears? And what does it mean that it is “natural to our ears”? Are you saying our ears amplify 432 Hz more than other Hz? Has a resonance at that Hz? Must be something else because it that’s the case it’s no matter – just means 432 Hz would sound louder.
Welll, that is a sound tech’s POV. In fact, 432 tuning signficantly impacts
vocalists who will find high C is lowered, which saves voice strain. Historically, Handel preferred 432 and Mozart 422, the only reason that A tuning went up was because of larger venues. In fact it rose to nearly 450 Hz but the French enacted a law lowering it because singers started protesting…nothing evil about 440 but there are differences…
Though I cannot completely disprove the mumbo-jumbo effects of 432Hz (no one can), I will have to agree with Reasonable Person. Oxford defines hertz as: “The SI unit of frequency, equal to one cycle per second.” A second is a completely arbitrary unit of measurement, and there is nothing in nature suggesting that particular length of time has any special relevance. Given that, I believe it’s safe to assume that the measurement “hertz” measurement is also without any significance. So even if 432Hz makes flowers bloom or cures brain tumors, it’s has nothing to do with any mystical numeric ratio. If we used a different starting point for defining frequencies, what sounds like 440 Hz might be defined as 33 Dt instead, yet still have the same exact wavelength.
Secondly, several people have commented about the validity of this poor man’s experiment. The main arguments I managed to grasp were:
1. The method he used to alter the pitch could have been better chosen.
2. His application of the scientific method was flawed, specifically in his lack of a control group and misuse of statistics.
3. The exceedingly common use of 440 Hz in the 20th century and beyond automatically biases the results.
The the first argument, I must say STFU. You claim that the artifacts produced from his pitch-shifting method degrades recorded music more than another example the that slows it down. I could argue that slowing a song down ~1.8% makes it sound worse. Neither of use would be right, since that’s really a matter of preference. All we could really do is compare your method to Trevor’s in a blind test and see which is preferred by more people. That would be interesting, but it would be different experiment. It would seem to me the method Trevor used had sound reasoning, as it was attempting to test the validity of the majority of the pitch comparisons found on Youtube. Using one method over another is not less scientific, though I would agree that using several methods is more scientific. To top it all, the researcher did in fact acknowledge the possibility of a bias against the higher frequencies due to artifacts. This seems scientifically ethical.
As for a misapplication of the scientific method, nah-ah. The statistics used are sound, well-explained, and are by no means misleading. If you disagree go take a stats course, I’ve taken several. Also, the “blind” method counts as a control, is accepted by the scientific community, and is absolutely necessary in almost any experiment involving humans, which segways to my treatment of the third argument.
Though I will agree there may be a bias to 440 Hz because of lifetime exposure to that tuning, this fact does not invalidate the experiment. This is again a challenge based on the experiments control method. Though blind experiments and random-sampling are not the most ideal control methods, they are necessary fallbacks when experimenting with human beings. Perhaps we should find a 1000 humans at normal age, who have been raised in a neutral environment, fed completely standard diets, and have never heard any music at all, to participate as the control group. This should sound retarded because it is. Sometimes one has to accept an imperfect method to control an experiment.
Lastly, Mr. Cain it isn’t nice to make fun of people with schizophrenia by pretending to be one. Find a new hobby.
Well Mr. Troll. No pretending in that telling name. Like some of the other people I know that are puffed up in their own mind because they paid for a college professor to tell them how smart they were for wasting money on nonsense, you do your screen name service. If the elements and the world we inhabit have no natural harmonics associated with them then your argument would have an ounce of merit. Since everything does resonate at frequencies related to their structure you have not even your delusional paid for intelligence to stand on. Since you took a bit of time to ramble against me I will give you just a bit of mine. My back was healed of a herniated disc during the same days I was researching this musical scale. Since herniated discs are a real thing experienced by me and a large% of people in the world I know that they just don’t disappear, especially when they have deteriorated to bone on bone vertebrae as mine had. I am a follower and servant of Jesus Christ the only begotten son of the only true and living God. Satan is come to kill and to steal and to destroy. Since he has no power over me, neither do you have any to shake my faith or my renewed back, which carried me 700 miles on a motorcycle trip last week when a 20 mile trip was painful before last month. Even before my healing this 53 year old faith filled follower of Christ could have made short work of you in a face to face debate or a face to face,wall to wall counseling session. Here is my Address if you want to stop by and insult me face to face, man to man. 3205, US 441 N. Whittier NC. 28789. The internet is full of trolls like you who are cowards hiding behind the keyboard, that after using it in making their anonymous faceless unaccountable insults, takes them to their lovers sites where they sit with their loins in their hand, which I’m sure can’t be bigger around than my little finger, if you are not willing to give me your address too. Thanks for your unintelligent imaginations you took time to spew at me. Looking forward to meeting you. Come on by. Here is a video of me praising Jesus for the grace he’s shown me in my life. I fear only God, never a troll like you.
If you can carry a tune in any musical scale I’d be very surprised. Like the man who can’t swim, so becomes the swimming coach.
I’m sick of seeing you people with no formal education, talking about how the second is arbitrary.
Why don’t you do some study into how ancient the second is and how it was actually developed as a measurement of Earth’s rotation within a 360º circle.
[And how about you tell me how arbitrary the 360-degrees are (360 = 3×120, 4×90, 5×72, 6×60, 8×45, 9×40, 10×36, 12×30).
360 is the only # that would yield so many polygons with whole # (integer) of degrees between points.]
There are 43,200 seconds (432 x 100) in a 12 hour period (86,400 in a day).
The Sun’s diameter is 864,000 miles (432 x 2000).
The Moon’s diameter is 2160 miles (432 x 5).
5×72 = 360, but 6×72 = 432. 🙂
Have you ever seen the masonic diagram of the pentagon sharing a side with a hexagon? Yeah…
Then we can get into how “arbitrary” a mile is..
The metric system is entirely arbitrary since it’s a macro/microcosm that is based on the number 1000 and nothing else.
Watch “Secrets in Plain Sight” to learn how these measurements were developed and HOW LONG people have used “seconds” and “miles”.
Conventional history is a joke. They tell us NOTHING of the ancient occult symbolism in the Washington DC streetmap for example.
Keep in mind, there have been continuous lineages of knowledge that have kept their secrets guarded for thousands of years. Their secrets are no longer secret, but within those systems are held mankind’s discoveries of divine measures.
Here is Durer’s diagram I was talking about above:
You didn’t research who started the metric system and why and how. How much did you pay for your wrong opinion? Just as you said, they supposedly measured nature and that is where they got the metric system. i was in the Precession Measurement field, ( PMEL) in the USAF for 10 years with hands on experience measuring every thing that had to be accurate. Metrology is what it is called. More can be learned from doing than reading bookworm. Demonstration of science through repeatable experiments is where the rubber meats the road. Your education smacks of brain washing which is what 99% of all state sponsored curriculum is. 100% of Genius Doctorate students are foreign born in this day. Americans are dumb as shit and you are not even up to that standard.
Watch this short video and deny the facts for your delusions.
Wow… you really know how to “miss the point”. Did you learn that in the field or in college?
And if you’re such a Godly man, please ditch the profanity and talk like an adult.
@Trevor Cox. It would seem to be possible to make one anecdotal observation about this thread. The level of “scientific” verisimilitude in the initial post is directly proportional to that of the commentators. As above, so below, etc, etc . . .
I had to look up verisimilitude, because my vocabulary is not as some more well read persons would be, and I believe I can take that as a complement.
the appearance of being true or real.
“the detail gives the novel some verisimilitude”
synonyms: realism, believability, plausibility, authenticity, credibility, lifelikeness
If that is what you meant, as the definition implies, I thank you for the kind word. If people could experience the trials I went through in the pursuit of this scale, they would be convinced without question. Have a nice Sabbath rest.
That there are 43,200 seconds in 12 hours seems interesting. How does that relate back to 432 Hz? Don’t just tell me 432 X 100 = 43,200. OR if you say that is the answer, what does that mean? Or why would that be significant?
I keep hoping I’ll run into reasoning about 432 Hz being overtones/harmonics resonance to some other natural frequency. But I still don’t see any info like that. 432 Hz is probably an “overtone” of the 24 hour cycle of the earth. But the overtones from such a low cycle as the earth rotating become too close together to be meaningful in any way once it gets into human audible range.
I can’t follow equating miles to Hz. You state that the sun and moon’s diameter in miles equal to some multiple of 432. But how does that equate to 432 Hz? How do you compare a unit of distance to a unit of cycles/second? Or why does it make sense to do so?
Discarding or approving it because of being a nazi discovery is a fallacy of first order, you are right the colorature of the two clips has been changed greately, specially in the hi range, you would have to tune the instrument(s) to x reference for one clip and to y reference in the other, and then you get closer but still there are to many variables, also how much unconciusly are people used to listening to music in 440hz plays a role. You would have to take two groups of individuals put them on a blind, Expose each to x or y for a considerable amount of time every day for a long time, taking physical and psychological tests periodically. ordering the test subjets to not listen to any other music at any other time of the day, or you can do it on rats and run navigation tasks on them, but you’ld be having a hell of a time desiphering their emotional output. But I do believe your experiment does expose the precarian state in wich pitch shifting technology is at the moment.
You missed the point. If you play the guitar and try and tune it to the scale I researched you would hear the difference. Shit is not profanity. It is excrement, and comparable to the level of education that people like you seem to exhibit. Either be willing to test it and prove or disprove it or drop it. You can’t hear the difference til you try it, if indeed you are a musician.
I try and test even what every one believes is true but have never tested them selves. For instance, the speed of light is not a constant. Why would they say it is then. Because the model of the universe they have educated us with would break down if it wasn’t. Time is the constant, and that is why the frequencies we worship the creator with matter. I don’t expect you to comprehend. You just want confrontation. Proclaiming to be wise, you have become a fool. Have a nice day, in your imaginary superiority.
Interestingly, the A seems to be somewhere around 449Hz in this recording…
…i.e. in Randy’s video
The tuner I downloaded does not work well with the microphone I use so I am a couple hz of form the ideal. In my scale the 451.272… is actually the G# with the square root of 144,000 being the F, or 9th note in the chromatic scale starting with A. The half step between G# and A is where the countdown at the 64th decimal place happens 7 times when dividing and multiplying back and forth, before it reaches equilibrium.
Yes , with the Square root of 144,000 being approx 379 hz. The notes in the 400 hz range fall at appox. 425 and 451 hz. 440 and 432 falls in the middle of these and won’t allow me to get the harmonic alignment that is easy to hear if you tune a guitar by ear. Thanks for taking the time to listen. Sorry for my fumbling around with the words. Hadn’t ever learned them all before i made the video.
@ Randy Cain:
What do you mean by “won’t allow me to get the harmonic alignment”?
Recorded sound doesn’t work like that. Almost everyone is misinterpreting the application of the theory.
Unless you actually record the music at 432hz, you’ll experience almost none of the different harmonic & supposed pyscho-acoustic effects. It’s why we don’t sample the best-sounding key on a concert grand & shift that single sample up & down to make the most awesomest piano sample bank; and so shifting an entire stereo recording doesn’t effectively “re-record” the instruments with those complex harmonic interactions within.
Secondly, mp3 and digital compression take out much of the interesting harmonic information that is recreated anyway. An mp3 is a heavily-compressed sample.That’s why a sample of a 440 recording can sound poor, even before shifting.
If you’d like to examine the differences properly, you should record a reasonably complex acoustic performance (i.e. at least with chordal information) at pretty high (24-bit, 96k) resolution at each of the two tunings. I think then you would be able to listen to the differences and decide which you prefer. I must say, since changing to 432hz I’ve started playing & enjoying guitar again; it’s almost a different instrument.
So you tune tour A to 432?
Agreed JP. Mis-application. I had to scroll through a lot of rubbish to finally get to a real answer. Thankyou.
Time to unsubscribe from comments I feel. Only the loonies left. 🙂
[…] Pitch shifting to 432 Hz doesn't improve music | The Sound … http://acousticengineering.wordpress.com/and string instrument tuning is a whole different ballgame, as the tuning changes with the intensity of playing, hence the need of purposely detuning the lower strings ( wound ) on a guitar so when playing they come back in tune! I am personally going a way from equal tempered and using the perfect fifth ….. As I changed the pitch setting on my Snark, I inadvertently left the bathroom exhaust fan on. I was pleasantly surprised to find as I tuned my A string, I noticed it … […]
Just commented on the earlier post so wanted to share my preference of these two as well. I preferred the 432hz, the 440hz lacked fullness and some of the guitar picks were too high-pitched which hurt my ears. Again, this is my preference, and I’m hyper-sensitive to noise…a group of women talking at the same time hurts my ears and it’s not just because I’m a man, haha.
I have been working with music and sound for over 30 years. I’ve done hundreds of studio sessions with various types of pitching. Unfortunately, this method of testing doesn’t prove anything and is completely unscientific. To do a real comparison the recordings MUST be equal and only the instruments tuned to the new frequency.
As for the discussion of whether 432 Hz is better, I don’t have an opinion but can follow the argument that certain frequencies are more harmonious than others. But while a pure, harmonic A scale at 432 Hz might be sweet as, the well tempered scale is a inherently imperfect to allow for other root notes on the piano keyboard. So certain tones will always be a little bit off unless the same rigor is applied to the interrelationship of the whole scale.
At the end of the day there are a large number of ingredients in making good music and I encourage anyone to experiment and finding new ways of putting mathematics, human emotion and intent into the aether!
Thanks for posting your investigation Trevor!
Your patience with the mind-boggling replies is inspirational.
Two things, One pitch shifting is not the same as rearranging the entire scale to 432. and second, this test proves nothing. The only examples of music that people listen to are in 440 hz, so asking people their preference is pointless since they will choose 440 always. its what they are used to and it is what they have listened to for a life time. You cant break a habit that easily.
Learned something new about music with this blog article. Thanks, Trevor.
From the number of remastered albums of older music reissued on CD’s I’ve bought and listened to over the past 20 years I’m convinced pitch shifting by sound engineers are the reasons for their shrill timbre and ear piercing high frequencies when cranked up. And I’ll even go as far to say it explains the reasons why some folks prefer vinyl and why loudness war complainers prevail.
I’ve been re-editing some these shrill sounding CD’s in Audacity by dropping the pitch maybe 1-1.5 semi-steps and sure enough all the vocals and instruments started sounding live and real, not as if the sound was generated out of some helium filled vacuum chamber (studio recordings). The vocalized “S” sounds no longer are ear piercing with a kazoo texture.
IMO it’s really about timbre, not math. Just listen for the timbre of a saxophone, trumpet, female/male vocals and especially snare hit and cymbal crash as you remember it should sound or if your recording live just immediately play back and check for pitch shift which will definitely affect timbre.
Emmanuel, I had read your article in french first, thanks for publishing an English translation. Exactly what I think all people here are looking for. I will paraphrase you here, beware of any proposal of adopting rigid, absolute systems of thought that states something is bad and some other thing is good,
Hi Carlos, Thank you for your testimony.
People doesn’t know that musical pitch never existed except in imaginary.
So how does all this math and theory relate to and/or improve acoustic and audio engineering considering the benefits and/or differences between 440hz and 432hz tuning can be tossed out the window with all the pitch changes that occur in the industry both at source in the studio and on output to various media formats?
I’ve been researching this online and I’m surprised how often this happens as if it’s part of the process which appears on further reading is mainly influenced by corporate driven time constrictions (radio play) and loudness requirements in order to compete.
Look up the various sound treatments involving speed/pitch adjusts on the Beatle’s song “And I Love Her” where it’s performed noticeably slower/lower pitched in a TV studio scene in the “A Hard Day’s Night” movie to prevent the TV studio monitors in that scene from flickering when played back at the movie theater at 24 fps to override British TV’s 240v/50hz TV frames rates. Yeah, I’ve been doing some reading.
And another gripe about deciding on which is the right pitch to record is that these brighter and shrill sounding remixes/remastered CD’s screw up crossover points to where the bottom end of the bass sound that softens the percussive peak force of say a 50hz kick drum is raised and forced to play harsher and less well rounded on smaller midrange speakers for those who have subwoofer separate components which I have in my car making subwoofers useless.
Is the perfect sound tuning for every song going to be different then? Since a song in the key of A sounds to most people better tuned as 432 HZ than 440, and since each labeled-by-ISO key is based on the mathematical info. Also, Hz is just a measure of distance of wavelengths, what if there were more accurate units of measurement. What would 17th century harmony say of the gradient that is introduced with the deprecation of A=440? What about the semitone scales of the east? They must be closer inline with the vibrations of the universe. I digress.
What bothers me is that we’re disputing one integer over another.
Since Frequency is based on our man-made Second (an arbitrary length of time) the chances that the perfect resonant pivot will be an integer are incredibly slim.
I’d be taking any of this seriously if the claim was that 432.245426843 Hz was the preferred harmonic center.
As a musician and producer I’m very interested in hearing all sounds of peoples opinions connected with this. Science in art and vice versa have always walked together hand in hand so it makes me smile all this debate. I never understood this idea of tuning. I can lay down a track at whatever pitch I choose- tune to any frequency and all that is required if I want to play with others or synchronise with them, is for them to be able to do that on their chosen instrument in a way that works with me and is harmonious etc etc. We can choose whatever we want. This can include instruments tuned to different scales and relative pitches/ octaves. The standard is what we choose it to be and in the way we don’t. It’s a paradox by default.
We all know the effect of frequencies and vibrations is not in dispute, we know standing next to a cement drill without protection will damage our ears eventually, we know we can break a pane of glass with the right frequency, we can boil water with sound- we can soothe a child or heal a worried mind – or reach states of elevated consciousness. The interdependence of all things means fundamentals like frequency are a key component in our well being- fact. Physically, mentally and spiritually our whole being and therefore our health and well being is definitely influenced by our environment- inner & Outer. Thing I want to know is who and why was it decided that 440 would be standard ? obviously standardisation is useful by does it really matter ? Its what we do with the frequencies and the way we ” present them” that is important.
The way we perceive sounds is infinite and has no standardisation- music has combinations and frequencies that work for healing and ones that will promote discordance in which also are infinite layers and dimensions that in turn will affect each person different and yet the same- vice versa. Thoughts are frequencies, emotions are and so are sounds – the way we combine these holistically as a whole and as its constituent parts is what matters and how that affects us. Its all about vibration 😉
One must be aware that the unit of time – the second – is a completely arbitrary unit, so when you derive frequencies from that (440 Cycles/Second, 432 Cycles/Second) they are only nice round numbers when related to the arbitrary second. Any mystical ratios derived from these numbers are equally arbitrary.
i dont believe in any freted instrument tuned A432hz. but i do believe that my guitar tuned 15cents flat of the original intune mode only in the wound strings ( EADG ) makes a huge diference in how i feel the music and how my creativity reacts at such thing.
I think its positive to experiment with different pitch centres, 440 is just a rudimentary agreement between a bunch of Europeans, lol. The youtube thing of downtuning recordings to 432 seems dumb, but for composers, actually writing a piece that doesn’t conform to 440 or 442 is a very interesting challenge and an investigation into the nature of music and pleasure.
I hope to do some experimental, non-scientific using a 442 drone, just to see what effect it has 🙂 Anyway, really interesting article, thanks.
I understand that arterficial tuning alters the MP3 or CD or what have you and is probably not the best way to go about it. Most likely recording onto CD in 432Hz would be the best alternative of course.
I had thought of this as well myself when experimenting with such software. Mostly i noticed just a lower volume (less ear piercing). I also know that beyond altering, we humans also alter with amplifiers and equalizers and digital processors and stereo sound and whatever. This in itself would alter anyway.
MP3 or any compressed music willalways lose the real effect and the vibration people are talking of is not heard by the ear but felt.
This is my assumption with this experiment – Altering the sounds from the music from 440Hz to 432Hz is still altering to that vibration, whether it sounds poor or loses quality in musicianal skill etc. In other words, people maybe confused because the sound feels good but sounds crap. At 440Hz sounds clear but gives not so great emotions.
I believe the experiment was to try and give people an idea that altering via arterficial means is not really going to produce a clearer sound. However the vibration range of that sound is inconclusive, probably why there is almost an equal outcome with each. I have listened to songs in the 480 range that i liked, DJ processed. That is another point also. Liking the song to begin with also helps with outcome.
Finally the reason people are converting music is for the vibration, not the music. If the music was converted before recording would probably be the ultimate. One post above lead to another site with example of Pink Floyd. One clue he said is that he liked it both ways because the song was brilliant to begin with. Recording also has an effect such as poor quality to high quality, whether people like a song.
This isn’t about liking a song. It is about being in the “Devine Range” so we can feel better, maybe bring out those natural chemicals. Music bring lots of different emotions and one person many years ago said maybe music is the universal language because i said it is hard to differentiate between accents, when they sing.
Anyway, for both sides it is good to examine things from different perspectives so we can get to the bottom of things. However it is probably better to do what you believe personally because there is just too much arguing in this world and the internet may have brought us closer but it has also made us argue more and have blogs with posts 10 mile long over such simple things. Until we all are able to do what it is we need to do for ourselves, this world is doomed, with all the control and people who know best, when they don’t, for them yes but not for everyone else.
I listened to The Schumann Resonance Response for 2 years straight, via headphones, because i was deeply depressed, couldn’t sleep and needed something to help me sleep. It was the only thing to help at the time. I did not listen to Television or anything. I just went to work, came home put on the headphones. When i decided to watch TV again, i got angry all the time because of all the lies that i could see being told, that i could never see before. All the scams and sale tactics used to brainwash us all. In fact even as simple as this Blog, we are arguing, but that is what the higher up’s want so they can sneak under the radar and get away with taking everything from us.
I realised this by tuning myself to vibrations. That all of us are being had and until you have it happen to you, it is too late. Until you work out that what is actually happening isn’t reality and just one giant scam, you will be stuffed. Every year just get harder and harder for us all because of the scam. Probably why the kids today listen to music without depth and the reason the singers write the garbage. It is all about capitalism. So in the end, whatever helps to calm our minds is what is needed and people experimenting with sound frequencies, good on them. At least they are trying something. Not everything in books is right just because it is approved by some knob above who thinks they are gods gift or better then everyone else. At least the author also did his own experioments, whether it is wrong or right or who is right isn’t the point. He and the ones opposite hime are experimenting for the good of us all, in some way and suppression has to stop. These arguments, especially the ones that say, call people a looney or some name are just resemblances of the higher up and their tactics. Down the line it goes. If we all suppress each other then their job of theiving our lives is mostly complete.
I believe in the 432hz resonance not that i believe it sounds better, via these software programs. Some of you should look up Ed Leedskalnin, a simple man that made things happen without the garbage of today. Just his own mathematics, which turns out is about vibrations or waves and magnetism.
your all missing the point, better is not a word that belongs in this subject,have any of you stopped to think that it may have less to do with your ears and more to do with your soul ? remember soul musicians,soul not science
Wow, long thread! Thanks to the author for getting this discussion rolling. The bottom line is: the music isn’t supposed to sound better at 432hz, in fact, most people will feel 440 sounds “better” because their being is attuned to that frequency (popular music).
The frequency shift to 432hz aligns the instrument/song with the sacred geometric principles of nature. I have spent many years refining my state of being and I can verify that when my guitar is tuned perfectly to 432, there are literally hundreds of ultra-subtle, angelic, super high frequency overtones that radiate from my entire being.
Very interesting to see the comments about the arbitrary measure of a second and the frequency measures derived from. Even if 432hz tuning isn’t 100% mathematically sound, it still definitely resonates within a more radiant sonic sphere. Could it simply be because the vast majority of music ever written is within that ethereal space?
https://soundcloud.com/loop-things/dcb some 432 guitar https://soundcloud.com/loop-things/stay-on-till-the-mornings-over im playing guitar since 1998 i have changed from 440hz to 432hz five months ago there is a BIG difference i feel it when play hear it it takes me deeper then ever before into music , if its no big deal why did they change it to 440 without really telling us why, 432 all the way for me
I just want to add that guitars are built to resonate at 440hz and harmonics of that. Youd have to build a guitar that rings at 432hz for it to sound better. Also pitch shifting destroys harmonic content in songs because the shift doesnt compensate for tuning differences. Also 432hz is not the frequency that tuning down is used for. Its the 360hz harmonic that comes with the 432hz tuning that is the purpose of tuning down.
I almost forgot… theres absolutely nothing wrong with 440hz.. 439.5hz, 440 and 441 hz are all closely related to phi and the golden section and the people claiming 440hz is bad for health are delusional 🙂
what are your thoughts on why they changed it from 432 to 440
Tour experiment is extremely flawed I’m sorry to report. Simply shifting the pitch will not work. You have to know a lot about music theory and over tones and harmonics and math to fully understand it. To do the experiment you would have had to recorded the song with instruments all tunes to 432 and the other pitches. Each note has over tones and harmonics that’s are multiples of the fundamental frequency and basically by changing it to 432 you took 8 cents off the fundamental freq and 8 cents off the over time but the over time needed more then 8 to be in it’s respective freq. really when you change it too 432 and it was recorded in 440 your just messing up all the over tones and making it worse.
I don’t really follow how you say the overtones would get off. My understanding is that pitch shifting would bring all frequencies down by a certain number of cents. Any tones or overtones also get the same treatment and would still have the same harmonically related ratio to other notes that they were in the original recording. An octave would still be an octave. 440 Hz and 880 Hz would shift to 432 Hz and 865 Hz.
The 440 Hz – 8 cents to get 432 Hz is not really what is happening with shifting frequencies. Hz and cents are not the same units of measure.
1 cent does not equal 1 Hz!
Cents are in a logarithmic unit and is not the same as cycle/second. The interval between each chromatic note is 100 cents apart, but the difference in Hz is not constant. The difference in Hz for higher notes is larger than for lower notes.
Reblogged this on my broken id and commented:
i found this to be very interesting…i am glad someone took the time to reason out the whole 440hz vs 432hz thing.
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Amazing to read such a mish-mash of comments mixing up all aspects together in a kind of cocktail! Scientific and pseudo-scientific and wacky all together.
For acoustic instruments, a change in pitch has dramatic results for purely physical reasons – period. I don’t care which science degree you have; talk with any pro musician.
Changes in temperaments do as well; however the extent of this effect is dependent upon the key of the music you are playing in.
If you gave a strong pitch memory, a change in pitch in an electronic instrument (form 440 to 430 or whatever) can also have a psychological effect – but perhaps not on everyone.
In any case your experiment is totally flawed from the very get go…
i wanna chime in here. I am a musician. I play to dementia patients about 20 hours a week. For the past two years I have been playing and singing in 440hz. I recently switched. The results have been amazing.
Holding and feeling it with an instrument is more of a test i think. vs listening to it on a recording. Its a change from hearing and thinking of the music, verses feeling it express from within. Most dont get that or understand. Its subtle and powerful.
The whole argument is redundant as humans defined the SI unit of time arbitrarily. If the second had been chosen to be 1.85185(recurring) longer then 432 Hz would sound the same as 440 Hz does with the duration of a second as we have chosen. With this longer version of the second all the maths stuff about dividing by 8 would still hold true. When stringed instruments are tuned flat they sound better/different because the string is under less tension and not because there is something magical about (fractionally) lower notes.
Prince is an idiot too for believing this guff. btw I prefer the sound of a guitar tuned slightly flat as the wood resonates better at lower frequencies – I am only decrying this daft idea about some frequencies being more equal than others.
RANDOLF dude your experiencing a psychose probably triggerd by the Tetrahydrocannabinol that was in your pot.
I think that tere’s a whole misunderstanding about what people mean with ”it sounds better”.
From my experience with listening in 440 and 432, is just that you percieve music in a different way. With 440 you can visualize music straith inside your head and it makes you feel a little tight. With 432 you are almost surrounded by music and somehow it goes to your chest and expands from there making you feel more relaxed.
Everyone knows (evidently not) that if you process an audio file you loose quality, and at the time it arrives on YouTube it is processed several times: CD t WAV or MP3 (wich degrades the audio by itself), processed by the plugin, mostly resaved to MP3 (without dithering) and finally uploaded to YouTube where the file is processed with a compressor-like plugin and again reencoded to the format they use for streaming.
It’s clear as the sky we used to have many years ago that there can be no improvement in quality.
Another fact is that all make this test first with ‘qulity’ in mind. Second it seems that nobody makes it as a blind test, not knowing wich tuning you are listenin to and taking some little break during litening for freeing your mind from the previous clip.
PS: Reply only if you have some arguments. If you want to ask me what weed I use or comments like that, please go out for a walk and think againg …
PLease guys, GET A LIFE!!! 432,440 whatever, just play the licks, jeez!!! SRV tuned to 432 but used huge strings. Its all about the instrument.
SRV didn’t tune to 432 hz, he tuned the guitar semitone down to Eb, but the frequency stayed 440 hz. Even tuned down instruments sound a bit disturbing to me when they’re not tuned to A=432 hz.
I am not an expert but I just want to add up that any frequency where the SUM of its three digits is Magical NINE ‘9’. ie 360 (3+6+0=9), 423 (4+2+3=9), 432 (4+3+2=9), 441 (4+4+1=9), it will give the best result in terms of accoustics, health in body n mind and will create that spiritual wellbeing feeling. It´s all written in our DNA, in nature and in the existance of all things in the Universe. Sound affects Matter. The shift to any other frequency in tuning musical instruments make people aggressive, angry, apathetic and negative and it´s proven through very different non biased scientific experiments. Just watch out the hidden powers telling us to get different frequencies where the three digits do not add up to 9. Therein the Illuminati and freemasonry reverse the number 9 into a 6 in allegiance to the Devil.
What do you mean “written in our DNA, in nature” ?
There are many notes when using A=432Hz that have digits that are not three digits in Hz and do not add up to 9. So how would any music, even in A=432Hz be possible to avoid that “bad” frequencies?
Be aware that statistically what generation of people were you surveying. Also for may years we have been used to listening to A4=440hz, so naturally are used to 440hz default. If people listen to a 440hz track, they will subconsciously recognise it, It is interesting to see that A4=432hz is 2nd, so a fair percentage was able to determine a difference strong enough to cast a change away from default. If a better test was trialed out on people who have not been conditioned to either 440 or 432hz; so the test isn’t unwillingly biased, then the results would be clearer.
What a bunch of internet warriors we have here. Bookworm in the earlier post just wanted to feel himself important. “I’m PRO PRO PRO Engineer, yea yea we get your point but you didnt get Trevor’s point.
If Trevor here is showing us that pitch-shifting with plug-in is gonna sound crap, why ppl on YouTube live in denial and claim pitch-shifting with a plugin to 432hz sounds better (even with artifacts). Bookworm himself told us that cant be possible but ppl do that all the time and still insist its better. So its a matter of placebo effect.
Now, i dont believe in this nonsense about 432hz. The notes correspond on 12 note scale anyway, its just a bit lower OVERALL pitch.
Yea but… It’s the effect on the brain that you want to measure. Peoples brain are actually affected by music. That’s what you want to measure. If they like it or not is irrelevant. You can like or not like a Kiss song in any frequency.
Thank you for the nice scientific article. I’m amazed at all the noise this generates in comments, how can such a simple experiment bring so much controversy ? Sure, the sample group is what it is, but 200 people grading the samples is respectable statistically.
The experiment is properly reported (i.e. reproducible, albeit with another population group), and the statistic correlation unambiguous, higher tones sound worst, no statistically measurable difference for 432 vs 440. I don’t see there is that much to discuss.
People, if you don’t like this experiment, design another one, run it, report on it. That is science.
This is a large cut above the articles I’ve been reading on the subject, mostly mumbo-jumbo about the hypothetical frequency of “the universe, life and everything” or a multiple thereof, when everyone knows that the answer is 42 anyway (so we should be tuning A at the magic decuple value of this, 420 Hz imho).
@ Yann, 42!!!! yeah hahaha. 🙂
It is obvious, even if you do not have a big studio, to check the audio quality of the result of changing just the pitch with audacity to either from A440 to A432 -1.181818 or A444 +0,90909 to match F528 that the quality of the sound decrease a lot. Whathever you want to do do not do it in this way. With tempo stretch, decreasing the tempo of 1.81818 % for A432 or increasing of 0.90909 for A444 (F528) do not change much the quality. Wherever you like to do DO NOT USE PLUG IN THAT CHANGE ONLY THE PITCH BUT CHANGE THE SPEED OF THE TRACK -1,81818 A432 OR +0.90909 A444 (F528)
of course if you mix the tracks and you need again to change the tempo to match the other track speed, after mixing you have to go back to the new track original speed (the one you change before) otherwise your pitch will change again and all your work is for nothing
“440 Hz is bad for our health, but then what do you expect from something first promoted by the Nazis?”
440 Hz predates Nazis. In a government system that squashes all initiative, and desires docile compliance, why would they apply a frequency believed to induce unrest and turmoil. Unlikely. Did they command a change in all live music? Did they re-press thousand of records in the new keys? Did they command all instrument makers to comply?
I think your title is highly misleading. What you are testing is completely subjective. The mental/physiological effects however are not subjective.
Aside from all the theory that the 432 mhz frequency is better for our overall well-being a recent study of musical frequencies and mental health show what is possibly a direct correlation between 432 mhz and improved mental health in people suffering from psychiatric dis-orders: http://www.viewzone.com/432hertz333.html.
Your title is false because you can’t call something “improved or not” based on the opinions of others. It’s like doing a taste test with vegetables and chocolate and saying “vegetables are not better than chocolate”.
The fact is if somebody has listened to 440hz music all their life (as most people have because it was the standard as introduced in the 50’s I believe) then it stands to reason that 440hz might sound “better”, purely because it’s what people are used to and comfortable with.
Great article, thread, feedback and responses from everyone both positive and negative. It’s great to see so much interesting theories.
I have worked with maths, physics, ultrasound (in the oil industry) music, audio technology, composition, producing, live sound, song writing and music performance (multiple instruments) and DJing for over 20 years. I do have a reasonable understanding of all of what is being discussed here but I am by no means an expert.
I do however have a problem with the whole 432 v 440 idea in general.
Regardless of original tuning, pitch shifting in its various forms, audio source etc etc. Virtually all music and every song of every genre and from every era contains multiple waveforms of both 432 and 440 (and the rest)…………
A piece of music is not one single continuous tone at a fixed frequency……….
There is frequent movement of many tones over many frequencies………..
432 v 440 is flawed from the onset…..
A. Most of us are accustomed to 440hz so it’s reasonable to assume we are biased.
B. It’s not supposed to improve the sound, only naturalise it.
PS good work though and I am now intetested in your work 🙂
Most people are used to the 440 Hz tuning (hear it everyday on the radio) of course to the casual listener they might choose that. Also, your theory is wrong because to have a true tuning to A =432 Hz, every instrument in the song, including a singers voice would have to be re-tuned. You can’y simply pitch down the entire song. None of the intervals between notes would be correct. This is why I am very skeptical of many songs claiming to be tuned to 432 Hz. They may be close, but not true 432.
Why would the intervals between notes not be correct after shifting? Do you think an octave would end up not being an octave anymore? If so, pitch shifting would indeed sound super bad, really bad – like noise.
Hi, I am very sorry, but the study you did is absolutely useless. Most people are used to hear music with 440 Hz. Therefore it is logical that they pick the one simular to what they are used to hear. 432 Hz sounds different to what they are used to hear their entire lifes. That is why they pick the 440 Hz, it just sounds more familiar. There is a “Cymatics experiment tonoscope 432-440Hz” on YouTube that shows the difference between the two. 432 Hz is more natural and clear, and therefore better for the Brain to digest. It´s like natural light is better for the eye than artificial, natural vitamins better to absorb than artificial ones. We are natural beeings. Elektromagnetic waves, energy fields, light waves and frequencies have a big effect on us. Or in other words: when you used to a shampoo that you used 30 years, and then you try an organic one, it feels and smells strange even though it´s better for your hair and your entire body.
I think those cymatics plates have their own resonance based on their size and material.
You could probably get the same pattern using 440 and 432 with applying the tone to a specifically “tuned” plate.
[…] While you can find musicians and audiophiles who prefer one tuning system over another, there is again no credible evidence that it makes a noticeable difference in how harmonious it sounds or the experience of most listeners. Acoustician Trevor Cox wrote of an informal web experiment he put together to test this. […]
I agree Daniel. You would need to do academic testing of those listening (heartbeat, level of relaxation, bloodpressure, respiration rate and whatever else you can think of) additional to perception and preference.
My contribution to this discussion: I’ve been playing acoustic guitars for over 35 years and have collected a few fine sounding specimen. I also have a professional recording studio and my own label of what I call music designed for relaxation/meditation/reflection. I’m actually currently working on a production in which I want to record as much as I can in 432HZ. But I can update on the progress of that later if there is interest. For now I just want to talk about my experience with tuning my guitars to 432 instead of 440. For me recently it has become a lot more intuitive to tune to 432. With just one string tuned to a pitchfork of 432 or a tuner I can find the other strings strikingly more easily then if I were doing the same in 440. Usually start with the harmonic on the A string. That feeling tells me all I need to know as to my preference!!!
Does anyone has the official reason as to why 440hz became standard instead of another frequency? Thanks
Test subjects were in a judging atittude when voting, so it’s a high chance that they vote to something similar to what they are used to listen (almost all music is recorded at 440hz)… so I think that test it’s not reliable.
I think in a gig, the audition will be more receptive to music played in 432hz than 440hz since it’s natural…
Sorry about my english by the way…
This is interesting, but it is completely missing a major factor. There is a chance that people are so accustomed to listening to 440 hz. that there is a bias toward that tuning. Without this information, in my opinion, your “study” doesn’t really prove anything.
This is really good. Do you think the fact that most music is 440hz and is what people are used to hearing played a role? Just a thought. thanks for doing this.
You took the comment right out of my mind!
It is one thing to pitch shift an existing track and another to use software like Ableton Live and Propellerheads Reason to make music tuned to A4=432Hz from the start. If I re-tune a track conceived in one frequency to another it most often does not have the same “vibe” or “feel” or what have you at the altered frequency than it does at the original target frequency.
All esoteric stuff aside, I personally feel more creative and get deeper into tunes when I create them in A4=432Hz as the origin frequency.
Thanks for this experiment, cool to see people out there tweaking the frequencies and this is unique in its approach and presentation.
Sadly, there are many people (both professional musicians and non-musicians) who cannot even hear any difference between A=440hz and 432hz. Personally, I think you have to literally try playing an instrument tuned to A=432hz for at least a week to understand the difference. There are, as well professional musicians who have told me they CANNOT play at 432 because they have perfect pitch (absolute pitch) and they hear automatically A=440.
I agree electronically altering music files from 440 to 432 does not necessarily sound better because usually the file is damaged in the change. But playing an instrument tuned to 432 is wonderful…try it for yourself…. 🙂 Coreen
THIS TEST DOESN’T WORK. For one simple reason 🙂 Let me explain:
Pitch relationships are not linear, but EXPONENTIAL. Simply pitch-shifting the entire audio clip down doesn’t work, and makes this test completely inaccurate.
The reason is that using A432, which shifts A440 down 8hz, doesn’t imply that ALL pitches also move down 8hz, because all pitches are relative to the central pitch EXPONENTIALLY, not linearly. For example, A880 shouldn’t go down 8hz to A772, but instead, since it’s 2x the A432 tuning, must go down 16hz to A874.
There are no tests I know of which actually use this, the correct, science.
I walked away from this comment, thought about it, and realized that audio sampling software does preserve the ratios—it must. I stand corrected!
(IN B4 SHOT DOWN) lol
432hz Player has been released! Its an App on the Iphone and has a PC version! http://www.432player.com/ …. do some tests with your favorite songs.. that’s How I did a lot my research.. and wow! a profound difference in the vibes of all my music. Worth it.. even if a skeptic about it! and for the fellow who had been somewhat negative about you not being “musical”.. in sense.. that’s what it takes to realize the effects of this wonderful tuning.. don’t be strictly stats and numbers on this… its a personal experience, and when open to it, it will change your perspective.. you need to experiment on something you enjoy.. you will be more attentive to the differences of 440hz and 432hz
Hello. This experiment is invalid. I’m not (I cannot stress this enough) trying to pose an arguement for the preference of 432. Anyway, when you change the pitch of audio using a pitch shifter you change the quality so you’re not JUST changing the pitch but changing the quality of the audio file. Sorry buddy. You might still be right and everything but your test is totally fucked. Doesn’t cut the cheese. Not up to scratch. Close but no cigar.
I’m no scientist but this experiment is definitely missing a few key points – parameters – for instance, how do we know if the subjects were familiar or not with the music they heard? Ideally one would suppose they not, but that isn’t accounted for, nor does it make any acknowledgement to the known fact that general music listeners who are not themselves musicians are much more susceptible to liking something purely because they recognise it. Add to that the already above stated comments about pitch-shifting and the means used to achieve this shift, it is hardly a surprise then if the original 440hz was the preferred choice, especially if the music heard was already known to the listener! Also worth noting that air does not move quite in the same way through headphones or monitors compared to the feel of hearing music from a live instrument. So who knows what other auditory phenomenon are affecting the body depending on the source of the sound?
You know, I’ve been tinkering around with this idea for the last few days. I’ve been watching a bunch of pitch-shifted videos, and the emotion of the pieces as they were performed in 440 tuning is completely lost. Literally, they sedate me so much that I start falling asleep. I figured that it was some inherent quality of the pitches that was affecting me that way, since I know that other tuning systems have a certain impact on my physiological and emotional states.
But then I found some live performances of extremely moving material in 432, and I have to say, I was amazed. The emotional content was completely intact. It hit me in the chest in a way that 440 music doesn’t. 442 and 444 performances hit me in the chest, but in an uncomfortable way. The 432 effect was within my comfort range.
I tried tuning my bass up to A444, and although I liked the sound very much, there is something overstimulating about the higher pitches. The only thing I can compare it to is a methamphetamine high, like I’m trying to chase down some illusive state of unattainable ecstasy. The string tension was also difficult to deal with, so I scrapped that idea.
I tried tuning down to A432 tonight, and so far, I’m pleased with the results. I feel the music in my chest more when I play; I feel more centered in it and attached to it. The mids seem to be reduced a little, so I’m going to have to find a way to get around that; my music relies heavily on a very flat, consistent tone. That could make it problematic, since I can’t just go out and buy a new bass with more precise EQ controls or change my amp settings without messing up the sound.
So basically, I agree with what the one guy says about pitch-shifting destroying the quality of the music. For this experiment to tell us anything about actual 432 music compared to music recorded in other tunings, the recordings must themselves be recorded in 432. That’s the only way to make an honest comparison of 440 music and 432 music. My suggestion is that you either make these recordings yourself in different tuning system versions, commission someone to do it, or see if you can find someone to volunteer. What you’ve done is a good effort, so I’m not going to knock it. If anything, it reveals a flaw that you can correct next time around.
I’ve been reading some of the better articles on why it’s a good idea to tune to A432, mainly because of the whole “scientific pitch” thing of C=256 hz. That seems to make sense to me. I’ve also read the stuff about how it aligns with all the golden mean stuff, and I don’t know enough about that to really comment on it, but it does seem pretty compelling. All these numbers aren’t as arbitrary as people claim; a second is a unit of time within larger units of time that are specific to the year. There is nothing really arbitrary about a second, so if there’s some scientific justification to align pitch with natural phenomena that we use as our basis of measurements, I’m all for that.
Of course, there are also practical reasons for tuning to a lower frequency; things like reducing vocal strain, reducing strain on stringed instruments, improving tone, etc. I don’t know that it’s something I’ll stick with, but I’m willing to give it a try experimentally just to see what results I can produce. For all I know, it might be the one factor that takes me from being an invisible nobody to stardom.
Anyone who wants to hear what my A440 recordings sound like, please check out my website link. If I end up posting any A432 recordings, I’ll be sure to come back around to let everyone know so they can get an A/B comparison.
I too was staring to think the unit of seconds is not arbitrary. Like you say it fits withing a larger cycle of the year. But then I thought, hold on what’s to say we divide the day up into 24 hours? With 60 minutes per and 60 seconds per minute? We could have thought of dividing the day up by 30 with other sub divisions for minutes/seconds.
Well, all the numbers stuff aside, tones in a temperament based on a lower reference pitch cause more tissue resonance than those based on higher reference pitches, which is why audiologists use 256 Hz tuning forks to diagnose certain types of hearing loss rather than 261.63 Hz tuning forks. Doctors can also use them to locate hairline fractures. 256 is close to 256. 87 Hz (middle C in 432 Hz 12 TET tuning), so it’s reasonable to think that the feelings people report experiencing from 432 Hz tuned music are caused by deep tissue resonance that is not typical of 440 Hz tuned music.
If it was just the C notes that had that effect rather than the entire temperament, people would only experience those sensations when they hear C notes, but that’s not what’s happening. They feel it throughout the music, regardless of the notes played, provided that the music is of sufficient volume to feel it. From my experience, it requires less volume to feel 432 Hz music than it does to feel 440 Hz music, and the sensation is visceral, unlike the skin-pressure sensation I get from 440 Hz music.
We don’t divide the days into 30 hours because it doesn’t work. Neither does a 10 month year, a 10 day week or a 10 hour clock. They tried that shit in France, and it was a failure. There is nothing arbitrary about how we measure time.
Regardless of how we count a second, what we call a 432 Hz tone would still be the same tone no matter how we count the cycles. The alleged arbitrariness of measuring systems is a straw man argument.
440 Hz is arbitrary; it was just a convenient middle ground between lower and higher pitches that were being suggested. There is nothing arbitrary about 432 Hz tuning; Verdi promoted it for scientific reasons. There are sound, physiological reasons to prefer 432 Hz tuning: higher pitches make bel canto method very difficult and harmful to vocal health. Even vocalists who sing in a limited register range in 440 Hz or higher tuning end up with throat problems, which is why so many singers lose the range of their youth as they age, and why singers are going under the knife to repair damaged vocal cords younger than ever before. The tension of 440 Hz or higher tuning is also detrimental to instruments, and makes it harder to play complex material. I know this from experience as a bass guitarist. I can practice and record all day every day tuned to 432 Hz, but I can’t do that tuned to 440 Hz. It’s too hard on my fingers.
There are plenty of sound, scientific reasons to prefer 432 Hz as a pitch standard. It’s the goldilocks pitch. Tuning stringed instruments to 440 Hz or higher is too high; tuning them down a semitone or even lower in 440 Hz temperament is too slack, and it still causes vocal problems when singers venture into the higher octaves. 432 Hz is just right; not too tense, not too slack. It also lends a fullness and richness to the tone that is difficult to reproduce in 440 Hz tuning.
Listen to the difference here: http://www.reverbnation.com/bateatsmoth
I posted 432 Hz and 440 Hz versions of Descent Into Death and some of my other songs for comparison. My reasons for switching to 432 Hz tuning are purely pragmatic and aesthetic. All other considerations are irrelevant.
I have not heard 256 Hz is used to test for hearing loss because of tissue resonance. And to find hairline fractures. I haven’t heard that one either. Is this to say that our tissues have a resonant frequency to 256 Hz somehow? What exactly is the relationship of the frequencies involved? What tissues? I also do question how, if there is a resonant frequency why all the other notes would also be resonant. That would mean there are multiple “notes” that the tissues are resonant to. Which is a pretty broad spectrum. Natural things that can vibrate sympathetically usually have a certain tonic and overtones that are not the 12 notes of a TET scale. So it would be interesting to know exactly what resonances our deep tissues have.
Also have not run into how France tired a different time unit. Tried to google for that but didn’t get the right key words to have it show up. Not sure what would make it not work. Regardless it is true 432 Hz would still be the same tone no matter what units we use. The question is really about how that frequency fits into other natural cycles. I think I read some say it fits into the cycle of day/night but they don’t say how that is. Like 432 Hz is the 100th overtone of a day. And then, why would that make any difference? The cycle of a day is not really a vibration, in my way of thinking.
Sure looser strings would be easier to play. Interesting that you say there’s a fullness and richness in tone that you don’t get with 440. Do you think this is that the bass’s body is more tuned to support 432 and the notes of that tuning than 440? Or is it back to the body’s tissue resonances theory?
Not sure about the straining vocals. People have a range and if micro tuning down to 432 lets a vocalist hit a high note they couldn’t before, that is very close to their top range anyway and not something they would sing. They would take it down a key probably. But, if the deep tissue resonance is a thing and all the notes also have a natural resonance with our body no matter what key you are signing in, then maybe 432 Hz be easier to sign – because our tissues vibrate to the notes and the singer would have more supportive amplification for any note(?). Do singers actually have a sense of some notes being easier to sing than others in such a little difference in frequency? What is this tissue resonance?. Is this like a sympathetic resonating like a higher or lower piano string will vibrate to the played string if they are related harmonically?
If there are sound scientific reasons to prefer 432 Hz – I do wonder what these reasons are. The closest reason that I can make some sense of to me might be this tissue resonance. It would be cool to know more about that. If this is the case, then our bodies would be getting a little massage I guess, with the right notes. Or we would be getting a non-response with the wrong notes. Then it comes to mind that music has it’s own patterns of dissonance and harmony during the coarse of a song, so then what does the body do with the music’s own harmony/dissonance? I mean, if you play a tritone in 432 Hz it is still a dissonant sound.
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I’ll leave you to figure things out on your own.
This whole study does not take into account that the human mind will gravitate toward and prefer what it is subjected to long term. I feel that the reason results showed that people preferred 440hz the most is because MOST music that we are subjected to is at 440hz! It’s kind of a no brainer. SO, this “experiment” is nothing but a subjective opinion. “432 hz does not improve music”-How can you scientifically measure what it means to “improve” music? I think the main point of the whole 432hz trend is CYMATICS. Look it up.
“but it does give music an interesting color” – DI or amp? Did you try it at different rooms, different room positions..different headphones..different equipment? Colored music/sounds is what we get on a daily basis. It changes everything.
I’ve been thinking about this a little more, and I don’t know why I missed it (probably too busy skimming articles), but I noticed that the whole numbers thing only applies if it’s Pythagorean temperament; you don’t get the lineup of A432 with C256 in equal temperament. So if we shift stride and make it about “scientific C” tuning, the only way to get even close to that in equal temperament is to make the reference on a chromatic tuner A430, or use a 256 hz tuning fork to make it precise. Here is a page that shows all the frequency numbers:
When I tuned my bass to A430, it just didn’t sound right. A432 sounds good, but with A430, the sound was too dark/flat and things just didn’t seem to line up right. In A430 tuning, the C ends up being slightly flat of 256 (less than a cycle); for some reason, I can hear this. I don’t have perfect pitch, but it still sounds off to me. With A432, the C is brought up to 256.87 hz, which despite the drop in pitch from A440 tuning, actually sounds slightly sharp to me relative to the A432 tuning.
Regardless of all this stuff, I do know one thing; Verdi tuning doesn’t feel as stressful as playing tuned to A440. The tension I usually get from playing is completely gone, and with my 35″ scale bass, it makes it easier on my fretting fingers. I’m still not sure if it’s something I want to stick with, but it does give music an interesting color, as can be seen in these live performance videos:
I think I figured out the problem with pitch-shifting a 440 recording down to 432: the two tuning systems produce different internal tuning relationships, producing slightly different harmonies and dissonances. With equal temperament, the notes don’t line up exactly the same when you change the reference pitch up or down; the frequencies of notes played together don’t nest the same. 432 is actually more dissonant that 440. He doesn’t put it in the same words, but this guy identifies this point in his article:
What that means is that when you shift a recording down from 440 to 432, the internal tuning relationships of A440 tuning are preserved; you can’t duplicate the 432 dissonance differences by shifting down, because you can’t realign the notes to produce those relationships; the recording itself doesn’t change. It’s like the difference between slowing down a vocal track to produce the illusion of a low voice and actually recording a low voice; they will never sound the same. As I’m discovering on my bass, a chord played in 432 will not sound exactly the same as that chord played in 440; the coloration is slightly different. That’s why people say the pitch-shifted 432 videos make them feel warm and relaxed; all they’re hearing is a softer, less tense version of the internal tuning relationships of 440, along with some unnatural artefacts. They’re not getting the coloration of 432.
This explains why music actually rendered and recorded in Verdi tuning has a different emotional impact than 440. If the modes are right, it can actually sound darker and more intense than the same type of music rendered in 440. It’s the dissonant qualities of the inherent flaws of equal temperament that give us the state of emotional arousal, so if a tuning system produces more dissonance, the depth of emotional arousal is increased, and processed in a slightly different manner. This is enhanced by the fact that longer wavelengths produce less penetration but greater resonance, which means that the increase in certain bass and low midrange tones produces greater emotional arousal.
This explains why each tuning system has it’s peculiar distinguishing qualities. The emotional arousal differs a little with each tuning system because of the differences in internal tuning relationships, and the differences in resonance and penetration. What I don’t understand is why nobody else has ever pointed this out. You’d think the 432ruthers would have caught on to this; it’s the strongest argument they could make in favor of Verdi tuning, and it completely destroys any opposing arguments of subjective relativity.
I have noticed something odd in all this; if I go from listening to 440 music to 432 music, I initially feel squashed and I get a reaction of anger. I suppose this is from resisting the “downshift” in consciousness and emotional reactions as I establish the new frame of reference. (I literally feel as if I’m sinking down into my body or being pulled down into an abyss, which is a grounding sensation I’m not accustomed to.) I suppose if I listen to 432 music enough without toggling back and forth between 432 and 440, that will go away. I particularly notice this effect if I play my bass tuned to 440, and then listen to 432 music.
So basically, although the 432ruthers have a lot of crazy and irrelevant shit to say, their reason for saying it is founded in reality. The experiences they describe from listening to 432 music are based in an objective phenomenon of how human bodies react to complex patterns of vibration. That plus the practical aspects of it can’t be denied.
“but then what do you expect from something first promoted by the Nazis?”
What kind of primitive argumentation is that? The nazis did some bad things, so everything they did is bad? I stopped reading there, because – in your own flawed logic – when you write one crap sentence all the rest must be utter crap as well.
it’s all important hombres. there’s just as much bullshit about what frequencies can “do” to the human body as there is truth. The internet is full of lies. Dig into Archeoacoustics. Don’t believe whatever pours out of England – they’re all to quick to shout “Piltdown man!” every time there’s a new discovery. The truth of history lies in using yr ears – so it’s important we listen and not stand stubbornly firm on “what we believe” to be true based off 1/2 insights we’ve tripped over on the interwebs.
I write about this often on my blog: kayleerob.com
cheers – KR
Doesn’t it seem likely that your experiment measured the quality of your pitch-shiting device, rather than preference for pitch?
Or is this concern ruled out somehow?
No, it’s not ruled out; it’s a valid concern. I tried pitch-shifting one of my own 440 recordings, and I also recorded the same song actually tuned to 432, and it doesn’t sound the same. The tone is different, the feeling is different, the overall sound quality is different. No matter how fancy the program, it just isn’t possible to get the sound of actual 432 tuning by pitch shifting a 440 recording.
When you pitch shift a song from 440 to 432, it just sounds like a “dumbed down” version of the original. When you record a song with your instruments tuned to 432, it’s a different experience.
But this guy isn’t comparing the quality of 432 to 440 as actual tuning standards; he’s just comparing the listener experiences of pitch shifted music compared to recordings originally tuned to 440. All his study shows is that pitch shifting is not the same as actually tuning to a different reference pitch. I’ve listened to a lot of authentic 432 music, and in some ways, it does sound better, both because it’s more resonant, and because there’s more dissonance in the internal frequency relationships. It sounds different from the same songs recorded in 440.
Check out this artist. She plays and records everything in 432 tuning. Her music has just as much emotional content as 440 music. Without a reference, most people wouldn’t listen to this and even know that it wasn’t recorded in 440 tuning. I’m not much into pop, but listening to her stuff is at least tolerable in 432:
Here’s Kiss From A Rose, recorded by Seal in 432. It was hugely popular, and he won an award for it:
Here’s a 432 guitar duo that’s big in Italy:
Beethoven’s 9th choral movement, rendered in C256 tuning (not exactly the same as 432 tuning, which would put middle C at 256.87 hz, but the difference is so slight as to be meaningless). The chorus was all amateurs; I’ve heard worse professional performances in modern concert pitch (442 hz or higher) that were shrill, full of bad register shifts and that lacked resonance. So I can agree with the Schiller Institute that Verdi tuning is a good idea for classical music:
Here’s something from the 432 Quartet (these guys are intense):
As for my choices, I’m trying to figure out how to make 432 tuning work for me, for the above reasons. Experience-wise, it simply works in ways that 440 tuning doesn’t. It’s also easier on the fingers, and I don’t tense up as much when I’m playing.
The bad thing is that when you shift down an entire temperament 8 hz, you’re shifting the series of overtones for each tone down 8 hz; the total number of overtones doesn’t increase when you drop the fundamental 8 hz, contrary to what some people say. Everything adjusts down equally, and the amplitude of upper bass and lower midrange tones increases. That means you’ll have a harder time getting certain upper harmonic effects, like pinch harmonic squeals on a bass guitar.
It changes everything about the tone, and if you’re trying to get a tone you’d normally get with 440 tuning, you have to adjust the EQ differently, maybe use a pick of a different thickness and material, maybe strap your guitar lower, etc. I still haven’t figured out how I’m going to get the finger sound I’m accustomed to; if I can’t, then I’ll have to scrap a whole album’s worth of basslines. It’s a world unto itself, with different rules. What may work for one thing in 440 tuning might not work the same in 432 tuning.
@Michael. Well, at least you sound like you know what you are talking about and I have to concur. I retuned my bass to 432 and, along with the many technical adjustments you mention, the neck had to be reset. So it’s quite an investment in time etc. But it seems to be one amply returned by the reintroduction of many profoundly “musical” aspects to the experience of playing/listening to the resultant music. As yo seem to suggest, a powerful revelatory introduction to a an entirely diferent universe of musicality . . .
I’m currently a 2nd year psychology student and I’m very interested in this debate for a possible dissertation proposal. Apart from blog posts and online forums, i haven’t discovered any peer reviewed studies /literature in academic journals investigating this concept. I’m curious as to whether you have published these findings in such journals? If not, it would be of great help if you could direct me to such studies?
No I’ve not written them up for a journal. Try looking to see if Hugo Fastl has published his study
But maybe people think they like 440 because they are used to it?
Thats because you can’t just pitch shift music made in 440 hz down to 432. it doesn’t work that way lol the harmonic balance of the entire song will be out of whack. The only way to really experience music in 432hz is to listen to music that was made in that tuning from the start. As someone who produces music I like to use both depending on if im making pop, hip-hop or EDM. I think 440hz has tightness and punch and 432 is deeper with more harmonic balance. I make all my EDM stuff in 432 and all hip-hop in 440. Its really a matter of taste.
I like JeffJoe’s comment above.
Let’s just say that the experiment was accurate, (and the 432 was created instrumentally and not electronically), and yet you still had more people that preferred the 440.
Couldn’t this be similar to asking a group of people who have only drank Gatorade all their lives, whether they liked the Gatorade, or the fresh smoothie better?
I think the results would be biased.
(Edit: this is a duplicate comment because I incorrectly typed in my email for the comment above, so please keep this comment and delete the previous one.)
The argument being made essentially is that 432 ‘sounds better’. It doesn’t. It sounds lower. So, by not agreeing with the premise, the premise is debunked.
However, unfortunately, those who really want to believe in this stupidity create a trap – if you happen to disagree with the premise, they employ ah homenim arguments attacking you. “People are conditioned to listen to 440”.
In other words, by using the word ‘conditioned’ you’re basically saying ‘agree with me, otherwise you’re a brainwashed slave’.
I think your sampling is in the correct path. However, It should be sampled long term. You are also assuming that every person will tell you how they are really feeling, something that is unknown and one can not control.
It is proven that all humans emmit some sort of energy wave, frequency, call it what you will and I think that is what the YouTube videos are trying to prove/illustrate. In the videos you can clearly see the different patters on the sand like substance placed over a metal plate when you apply sound waves.
I also came up with active military equipment that uses sound waves for croud control at a riot for example. Though this military equipment is much bigger than small speakers. It uses the same idea, soundwaves affecting humans. Only here the croud (sampled people) are literally being controlled.
I see what you are thinking, I hope 🙂
Waaaaaoooo AWSOME, WTF overt there, can t believe how it was an interresting TOPIC.
I guess it the need for Revealed Mistery, for Fill the emptyness Meaning of life in the western occidental civilazation. (maybe)
Anyway, was ineterresting read a bit, from scienctist to nutt and crazy point of views.
Thanks a lot to the autor of the post, was instructive and hilarous sometime.
[…] como la naturaleza”. Esta afirmación es relativamente fácil de poner a prueba con doble ciego. Ya se hizo, y resulta que una afinación más aguda resulta menos agradable mientras que no hay cambio alguno […]
Me and a friend tried this for the first time last night , not only do we feel it would make learning music at 432hz pitch a more enjoyable and engaging experience we were blown away by the sense of peace it provoked within us . I picked up my guitar this morning and feel the same , when listened to a pitch shifted version from YouTube this was not as apparent , I would think this is due to flatness of a recording compared to the live experience .
I just listened to music at 432 HZ and 440 HZ, and the version 432 HZ is (feels) better.
Oh, and the proposal to standardize 440 HZ wasn’t ”first proposed by the Nazis”
According to wikipedia “Largely due to their protests (singers), the French government passed a law on February 16, 1859 which set the A above middle C at 435 Hz. This was the first attempt to standardize pitch on such a scale, and was known as the diapason normal. It became quite a popular pitch standard outside France as well, and has also been known at various times as French pitch, continental pitch or international pitch (the last of these not to be confused with the 1939 “international standard pitch” described below).”
[…] most popular page on this blog is a description of an experiment I ran exploring the detuning of music to 432 Hz. The re-pitching […]
Hey Trevor, from the perspective of someone who teaches acoustic and audio engineering, what is your take on actual 432 music? I haven’t played any live shows tuned to 432, but just from practice, I’ve observed some interesting differences: more wall and door vibration, people hearing it louder in other parts of the house despite no difference in volume or EQ settings, the tone pretty much staying the same regardless of where I stand relative to the speakers, the body resonance thing that reminds me of an indica high, etc.
Brian T. Collins says that the real reason the German orchestras started pitching to 440 in the late 1800’s is because the resonance of lower pitches (422, 435) was causing venues to shake. Do you agree with that assessment? Could this pose a problem for high volume, modern music performance in modern venues?
As I see a few others have noted, a study that would have real meaning is to compare a musical composition originally created and recorded with A432 as its referential starting point with one that did the same at A440. All the relationships of internal coherence within the music are preserved and then comparison made apples to apples. This study can unfortunately point to nothing significant no matter what the results ended up being or how they were thoughtfully constructed. Pitch shifting down A440 music does nothing but compromise everything to start with. Apples to Apples is what is needed and that would be a study interesting to lots of people!
While I can respect the author for his views, I must disagree with his reasoning. The hertz measurement experiment the gentleman conducted could be mis-controlled or even biased in several factors:
-dependence on song bitrate (this can affect 432hz-conversion quality)
-dependence on the factors during the song export (presuming the experiment was done with songs from various artists with various mastering engineers)
-dependent on a test subject’s ability to understand these factors before participating
While I do agree that many songs do not convert into 432 well, the proof is in the pudding. The quality of a song converted to 432Hz can be reduced drastically depending on its original file. By “file” I mean the fully mastered, iTunes-purchase-ready, 440Hz, 192kbps/< file that you start off with. Conditions of the original song as well as the above factors can prove to affect the final sound quality. But not all songs exported in 432Hz come out this way.
Try converting "Life" by MitiS and "Days to Come" by Seven Lions. Both are dance-ready, bass-heavy songs in the dubstep/electro genre. But as you'll notice, Seven Lions music has drastic amounts of EQ effects involved with his synths, as well as the possibility of applying "spread" during any given time during his song construction. Such simple alterations, in addition to finalizing a song, can completely effect the outcome of a 432 conversion. That's why most artists who support the "432 movement" (mainly hippies and stuff) work to re-master their entire albums. But that's just an extreme example.
If you prefer, listen to everything at 440Hz. There really is a difference, though.
Oops! Not to mention that the general stereo input plays a massive, humongous role in the outcome, since not all music is mastered or played at 440Hz… Minor detail, lol. Stereo input is determined with long, clarified notes played in a song, used to estimate and synchronize the song’s various tones and harmonics within its frequency spectrum. So, if my entire iTunes library had a stereo input of 441Hz (usually the case if you’re like me and do a batch convert of your whole library, in glorious independence of iTunes’ Purchased AAC format), then it’s safe to determine that the calculations for the conversion would pretty much all be the same. Of course, this is all based off of computerized accuracy based off of the earlier properties I mentioned, and often with modern music’s exports, conversions, and raster upon raster of the same frequencies comes an infrequent miscalculation. Usually it’s much above 90% accurate though. In any case, when in a 432Hz conversion software, set the “input” to the matching descriptor from your iTunes library, which by the way can be sorted the way you sort an artist or album. Of course there have probably been a couple people who have clarified this in this thread. Thanks for reading. 🙂
Also, if you give people several tracks tuned differently they will tend to pick the most natural sounding (and by natural I mean the middle ground in between differently tuned songs, specially if the examples are tuned differently in linear increments)
This study is not accurate. People are going to like music they’ve heard before, and if they only ever heard it in 440 before the experiment, then they’re going to choose 440. Just because someone likes it or dislikes it doesn’t prove it disprove the 432 theory. It’s a study that has to be done over generations and your not likely to be conscious of the affect it may have. Look at the last hundred years.
Nothing is wrong with the pitch shift plug-in comparison, until you process the original 440Hz signal as well, at 440Hz.
* both signals should go through the same plug-in..channel strip..etc..
….., until you *DON’T process the original…
ps: only a person, who can recognize a sine of 432Hz every time, or produce 10/10 times a 432Hz sound, using only his own body (without any reference), can make me believe in that 432 bla, bla.. The tuning freq could be..any frequency! 😉
ps: I read so many times “most people..most people..most people”.. how many of those people listen to music in a perfect tuned studio, hm? None!
Secondly, those imperfect listening conditions work against the “most people are tuned to 440Hz”. Come on guys…even оur subconscious have never been, is not and will never be controlled by a given tuning.
The author of this article is either very badly misinformed, or he’s a disinformation shill. I certainly do hope it’s the former.
[…] Finally, there comes the acid test: Use a controlled experiment, playing listeners the same clip of music but tuned to different pitches. Professor in sound and acoustic research Terry Cox did this very experiment. His results found no preference whatsoever in listeners hearing music played at 432 Hz, compared to 440 Hz. You can hear the clips he used and read his full explanation and results here. […]
Those who don’t have interests in spirituality -like skeptics- misses a lot about this topic. 🙂
My band uses scientific tuning A=432hz. Immediately after employing Vivaldis tuning, we witnessed a physical response in our audience. And we’re just an experimental improv noise band with no expectations.
Interesting experiment, I think there’s still too many variables not taken into account in the way you have conducted the tests. Or at least no mention of covering these areas:
1.Not all participants may have understood exactly what it is they are listening for or have the active listening abilities of experienced musicians. To cover this variable you could split results into 3 catagories, lay listener, musician, perfect pitch.
2. Altering the pitch with software reduces the quality of the sound, so the audio is currupted. To get around this, original audio must be re-recorded at these frequencies.
3. For the healing properties/ harmomy with natute, to work you would probably need to feel the music through your body so listen loud.
4. Finally, the pythagorean scales differ in intervals from the diatonic scale, changing the frequency of just the root note does not get to the heart of what this perfect ratio scale is really about. New music using these specific inyerval scales needs to be made, but its pretty difficult as pretty much all modern instruments are diatonic. New instruments need to be created or digital music.
Just sayin this doesn’t appear to be anywhere near thorough enough to be able to claim a conclusive result. It’s probably only due to reduced quality when you pitch shift screwing your results.
Let me know if intend to get to the bottom of this and repeat the experiment with these factors taken imto account.
wow so much to ponder with all the responses here regarding this topic and it is a topic I truly love as I am a musician. I am seriously considering tuning to this 432 hz frequency. I have been listening to many songs in 432 all day since learning and reading more about this tuning. I am gradually hearing and feeling the difference!
As far as I can tell from making simultaneous comparisons of songs, tuner-checks, play-alongs with my bass, etc., these bands all tuned to 432 Hz, or somewhere very close:
* Stone Temple Pilots
* Disturbed for their latest release, and the one just prior (apparently, a trick they borrowed from Stone Temple Pilots to boost album and ticket sales)
* Santo and Johnny (the song Sleepwalk is definitely in 432 Hz, as this live performance demonstrates: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-MntE0OkHc )
* The Beatles – tuned 435 Hz for most of their early stuff, 432 Hz after George learned to play sitar (apparently because Ravi used “ohm” tuning: C#3 at 136.1 Hz, which puts A4 at around 432 Hz in equal temperament. Paul or John once said The Beatles tuned to Ravi Shankar’s sitar as reference to this)
Listening to classic rock and rhythm and blues, a good amount of it sounds “flat” when compared to modern pop music, probably because they were tuning somewhere around 432-435 Hz. This is likely for the reason that most of the older pianos still in use during that period were tuned to French pitch (435 Hz), which had become somewhat of an international standard after the French made it law in their own country in the 1800’s. 440 Hz tuning wasn’t internationally standardized in the musical instrument industry until the mid to late 50’s. Even as late as 1970, one could still find 435 Hz tuned organs and pianos of recent manufacture.
Also to consider is that there was variance in standards both from continent to continent and regionally. There are also genre considerations: military music, jazz, classical music and music instruction have held to 440 Hz as a standard (mostly because modern manufacturers built pianos and brass instruments to this specification), whereas there are no consensus standards in rock, metal, R&B, rap and hip hop, etc. Anyone who takes the time to tune-check various recordings from various eras of rock and rhythm and blues will find that a large portion of it is not tuned to A440.
Anyways, anyone interested in knowing what authentic low pitch music sounds like and what it can do to advance an artist’s career can listen to the aforementioned examples, and observe the history of their careers. All of them were highly controversial and/or influential bands. For example, the critics and the industry hated Pantera, and many considered their music contrived, but they were highly popular and successful, with a ravenous following. Disturbed has been plagued by the “curse of the 4 piece” (getting locked into a signature sound they can’t break free of), and they’ve both been criticized and experienced a decrease in commercial performance, but after changing their tuning, they became more successful. STP was heavily criticized for riding the coattails of the grunge phenomenon and for having a vocalist with a sound similar to Eddie Vedder, but they were highly successful despite such criticism. Godflesh stuck out like a sore thumb because of their ultra-heavy sound with exaggerated EQ settings, and despite a lack of industry support, they have a cult following and have been very influential in both industrial and metal music. Crowbar is sludge metal, which is relatively niche, yet they have a cult following and have experienced career success.
Many 432ruthers point out the British invasion as evidence of 440 mind control because of the audience mania phenomenon, but most if not all of those bands primarily tuned low pitch, primarily because most pianos in England at that time were old pianos tuned to French pitch, and a lot of bands during the mod/psychedelic era were influenced by eastern philosophy and art, which means they likely would have incorporated the “ohm” tuning or 432 Hz bowl tuning into their music in an attempt to influence their audiences to seek higher meaning and question authority.
So aside from any issues with pitch shifted 432 Hz music, actual 432 Hz tuning is ideal for anyone looking for a career edge, because it gives music a visceral, tactile quality that 440 tuning simply cannot provide. It can make a good band legendary, and make a hack band sound good, because the solar plexus acts as an emotional amplifier when sonically stimulated.
Pop has stuck with 440 and even higher pitches because whereas 432 Hz increases emotional reactivity and meaningfulness like a psychedelic drug high, 440 and above stimulates a feeling of overstimulation, like a sugar and caffeine high. 440 and above is ideal for fly-by-night sensationalism, which mostly appeals to sensation-seeking youth who lack the maturity to deal with adult emotions and introspection.
The commercial success of some of the aforementioned bands is evidence that the industry doesn’t really care how artists tune their instruments. They are only concerned with results, and doing whatever it takes to produce those results. Further evidence that they don’t care is the fact that the bands Helloween and Melechesh openly released 432 Hz albums, even citing some of the mystical views associated with 432 Hz. Both have major label distribution.
Well, Thank you for being open.
Thank you for being genuine in your undertaking and commitment to the TRUTHS.
For Me. Resonance of music at 432hz is more indelible through the entire wave as the core root intension of the annunciation originator.
And not necessarily observed through all and or parts of musical subjects or selections that are alterations from 440hz source material.
Now some personal assertions.
At the time of early broadcast, amplitude modulation, recording technology etc.
440Hz will get a more congruent audio selection across. Period.
Where listening to vocals
Any lack of luster thought missing,( for me ) is coming from a conditioned point of view.
Subjected to years of 440hz vocals.
432hz vocals are not candied, there naked,
And more so the lower the note.
You cannot hide where your comming from about what your singing at 432hz.
Yes I’m a singer.
Studied w the best.
Love songs, Standards. beauty and truth to story unbounded.
I find what you say about singing in 432 compared to 440 to be true. “candied” is an apt description of 440 tuning. 432 is raw and visceral; there’s nowhere to hide if the music sucks. It rends the veil, revealing the artist in their nakedness. That’s why I think it will eventually replace 440 as a standard; it allows the cream to rise to the top, which is what we need in today’s oversaturated market.
Here’s a great performance of Verdi’s Requiem, tuned to 432 Hz:
Most sound cards won’t even play 432.
That’s not accurate. Soundcards have nothing to do with instrument tuning or the notes played. Sound cards are not tuned.
I can’t help but feel like you missed the relevant point with your experiment (the health effect, the spiritual effect and the behaviour effect of 432 hz tuning).
Nobody said that people “like” 432 Hz better.
The point is that there has been a significant amount of indicators that it is “better” for humans to be tuned to 432 Hz.
People also “like” industrial products with tons of chemicals better after years of eating them even though it damages their health.
That excatly is the evil withing these things.
To make people get used to stuff that hurts or manipulates them.
Or to get them hooked on substances so they can’t even enjoy natrual flavors or music anymore.
Therefore this experiments only reveals what has been shown in dozens of other experiments.
People don’t necesesarily dislike the poisen they are given.
That’s the trick.
It’s not something that should have been arbitrarily changed. Just because you can’t tell the difference doesn’t mean it’s right. Also note that most music was written to be pleasant at 440hz.
Here is a reference. Please don’t respond to my comment if you don’t at least watch it.
My only comment now about this 2-year-old post is: it’s a fascinating topic, and personally for reasons of logic, symmetry, elegance and all that, plus my own subjective response to hearing a432 acoustic music,I am leaning toward experimenting with A432 myself.
(With synths as opposed to an acoustic instrument — unless one includes my voice, in which case I might expect to feel some differences as well; if the theory is right, even vocal cords, lungs, sinuses, bones, and entire body, might resonate better and more naturally, in 432.)
I also must say I have my own experiences with “energetic” phenomena which bring home the reality that everything is frequency and frequency affects everything. Therefore, just as the difference between an essential nutrient and a toxin may be just one or two atoms, a tiny difference in frequency and resonance may make a huge difference in the health of living things.
I too would echo some of the criticism of the assumptions and methods in this Particular study but I don’t understand why people on either side (not including the professor) have to get get so emotional and abrasive about it.
In the future, I would be more interested in info on biological studies into the health effects of these different tunings, which might tell a clearer picture than “subjective” preferences.
Rudolph Ponzio, singer, said:
I’m not sure, but I think that this means that original A432 source material would produces resonances, due to the instrument materials and mechanics, that A440 music shifted down to 432 would never produce. (Is that right, Rudolph?)
i agree with Rudolph and others that this is a flaw in the method (as well as a flaw in the assumptions of those Youtube artificial A432 musicians).
Now I’m about to tune my synth down to ~432 just to test my own subjective exoeriences. On the one hand — it is a synthesizer, so it’s producing a digitally simulated waveform; there is no natural resonance as such from an instrument body, wood, or metal …..Which I assume would produce a part of the “A432 experience.” However, I will be transducing the synthesized sound through a speaker (who knows what’ll happen there) into a room which is built of physical material with its own resonances, and hearing and feeling them with my ears and body which also resonate at those natural frequencies, and so can probably at some level, feel and tell the difference between a “worse-fitting” or “better-fitting” series of frequencies. So I would say it’s still a valid way to experience the phenomenon.
And again, I can also sing and I will try to judge the effects on my voice, the rest of my body, and the whole outcome of how I sound. I will especially be interested in how it sounds and feels when I start stacking some A432 vocal harmonies!
Michael said: “…the body resonance thing that reminds me of an indica high, etc.”
Maybe the vibes actually turn on your endocannabinoid system …. 😉
Es muy curioso que la voz humana esté en la frecuencia de 432hz??, pues así es, es fácil comprobarlo. Es interesante saber que los pájaros cuando cantan, también lo hacen en la frecuencia 432hz….. Podemos valorar que las guitarras y los instrumentos de cuerda se afinan más cómodamente a 432hz, y las cuerdas se rompen mucho menos???……. etc., así es, lo hemos comprobado. Todo esto y mucho más, he tenido la suerte de comprobarlo, por casualidad, pero es así. Hay muchas frecuencias buenas y muchas malas, unas favorecen el crecimiento de las células de las plantas, el agua y el ser humano, y otras pueden llegar hasta enfermar y matar, o desorientar animales marinos, como hacen con las ballenas azules, ese mismo efecto hace en los Seres humanos, y en toda la vida de este planeta. No tenemos que quedarnos solo con la superficie de la experiencia, hemos de profundizar, y vivir más en consecuencia y con responsabilidad de todos nuestros actos. Saber, investigar, experimentar, sintiendo ¿qué pasa dentro de nosotros?, es fundamental para diferenciarnos de un psicópata, o un robot. Analizar ¿porqué ponen en marcha diferentes leyes y normativas?, es muy interesante, y no reírse de otros, que sí consideran las posibles repercusiones que ello conlleva en nuestras vidas. Animo a todos a que toquen, escuchen, y sientan serenamente las diferencias de unas frecuencias y otras, y como dijo Verdi, Matemáticamente la frecuencia 432hz es perfecta…. Aroha (Agosto 2.015).
I have a theory in which all your participants have been programmed from small age to listen to music in 440 hz , just showing them some clips to see if they notice a difference simply is not going to work , the brain will deny any new information cognitive dissonance, I also believe that if 440 hz is causing harm to the listeners cell and dna structure after many years of training it this way it must develop an addictive personality to this harmful effect.
[…] tampoco intenta replicarlo seriamente. El ingeniero acústico Trevor Cox llevó a cabo un estudio informal en línea, pidiendo a la gente declarar su preferencia entre pedazos de música cambiadas para […]
Trevor, you might need to pay attention to all these posts. If your scientific mind won’t budge, then you won’t be able to understand what we’re all referring to here …A question you might ask yourself: is your rational scientific mind in the way of truly understanding the subject? Because the proof of 423 hz is something you can research in depth on the internet. Perhaps you might read those countless reports and see and hear the difference. Hopefully, then perhaps then your mind might awaken to a whole new way of approaching the subject.
correction: ( not 423 hz) 432 hz
This article will tell you a great deal about the history of it. http://www.whydontyoutrythis.com/2013/08/440hz-music-conspiracy-to-detune-good-vibrations-from-natural-432hz.html
[…] sư âm thanh Trevor Cox đã tiến hành một nghiên cứu trực tuyến không chính thức, thỉnh mọi người đưa ra lựa chọn của họ về […]
Please take into account that if you speed up or slow down acoustically generated music, it will just sound “wrong” due to natural gradients that our ears will recognise that arise as consequences of gravity, composition of air particles, (speed of sound), elasticity of strings, etc, etc, etc. if you would like to test it again, please sample fundamental notes you will construct the chords you make the song from, using an actual guitar or instrument, tuned to that frequency. I would like some data myself but unfortunately I havent worked my way into a position where i could do the tests as you have. Sample every note from a real guitar, add them together when you make chords (perhaps using midi) remember to use the maria renold set of frequencies, and do the test again. This will avoid the natural bias we all have against music that just would not occur in out atmosphere with instruments we know. If we speed a note up, every gradient within that note is changed. In our atmosphere, certain gradients within a note would never change in relative unison as a sped up or slowed down recording would. The ear, especially the ear of a musician, would instantly identify the lack of certain natural aspects in a sped up or slowed down song. Thanks for allowing comments, this makes me trust you, as you allow input from diverse sources and do not cower from criticism. Sign of a great teacher (I teach science to kids). Respect for that and for what you do, above all. Students who identified 440hz have good ears and it looks like, from your results, that many of your students do. Also a sign of a great teacher. All the best. Philip.
We will all naturally resist any alteration to what for which we have trained and become accustomed. This test is flawed and can only cllaim preliminary findings at this stage. Some orchestras go up to 444 to make the music more bright, especially the strings. I am a musician but I also trained as a piano tuner and we learnt that tuning is not uniform across the piano and is instead tempered to enable equality of the key centres. It is possible to do this as a ‘narrow’ way or a ‘wide’ way according to taste. There is every chance that the Fibonacci numbers do have some credibility but to base it on just one note of all the notes in the audible range as the tuning reference note just doesn’t make sense in this context.
Is it possible that our entire body is so used to 440Hz that to find 432Hz “not meaningfully” positive IS AN AFFIRMATION of 432Hz, Not a detraction ???
To my ear… there is a warmer tone for A=444 and A=432. The harshness of a=440 — is cold and sterile and harder for people less inclined with good pitch to reproduce the pictch. a=440 is jarring over long periods… but we have gotten used to it, and there is not any alternative because everything (except some esoteric 432 or 444 recordings) is sounded today at A-440. Cheap car speakers also sound dazzling and strong and sterile and cold. They dazzle at the buying phase and then tire the ear. The warmer balanced speakers (usually costing more) don’t dazzle upon first inspection and over the long range are comfortable to listen to over and over for long extended sitting periods. More people would sing (I think) if A=432 or A=444) — it is kinder to the vocal chords and its more natural to reproduce. This is theory for me. I can’t prove it.
I’m late to the party here! Just took your test. As an audiophile, my response would tend to be heavily influenced by the sound quality, which was rather abysmal. Also, I wondered whether you have considered the following. If the DSP you used to shift the pitch was of low quality, then the pitch-shifted variants may all have sounded worse than the reference due to the influence of adverse DSP effects. What do you think of that?
I was mimicking what people do on Youtube videos of 432 Hz, so yes I agree pitch shifters alter the sound quality,.
Yeah, even if the pitch-down sound quality is great, it just doesn’t sound the same as a recording made with the instruments actually tuned to 432 Hz. Check out both versions of my song, Descent Into Death:
Both are recorded using the same EQ, same instrument settings, same effects settings, and both versions were recorded with brand-new strings and picks. Despite this, they sound and feel different.
I’ve listened to several live versions of Vivaldi’s La Folia: one in 440, one in 415, and one in 432. They all sound different, with the 432 version being the most intense. I’ve also listened to Verdi’s Requiem in 442 and 432, and the higher pitch version just doesn’t compare. The voices sound strained in 442, but open and dynamic in 432, as bel canto singing should sound.
I still agree though that pitch-shifting music from 440 to 432 doesn’t make much of a difference. The resonance difference can be apparent, but the recording sounds exactly the same, apart from sounding slightly flatter. It’s still not as resonant as an authentic 432 recording, and pitch shifted versions don’t sound as intense as versions actually recorded in 432 Hz tuning. The only way to get the changes in timbre and non-harmonic overtone coloration is to actually tune the instruments to 432 Hz.
Had it been so simple to perceive the difference between 440 and 432 hz music would’ve ceased to be melodious because people would have realized that something was not right. But we love our our music don’t we, that is not to say that there isin’t something profoundly wrong with 440 hz which influences us in a very subtle manner. You just have to look at all that is wrong with society these days, much of it could be due to the music the people are exposed to. If you really want to run a test between 440 and 432 hz I suggest you expose a group of people to both tunes over a period of time and then note differences in their behaviour and their feelings. Otherwise this test is inconsequential.
Funniest comment in the list was the guy who tuned his electronic piano down and “it sounded great” Electronic pianos are sampled (recorded) pianos…when you retune them you shift the pitch…so that guy would be happy with simply dropping the pitch of things recorded in 440…but he doesn’t think so. 🙂
As an audio engineer and a person with a degree in music, I can’t help but take issue with the A=432 crowd. I don’t especially care about which sounds better; a pitch is a pitch. Taken at the merits of the case for whether A=432 is somehow healthier for us, however, is just twaddle. There are lot of angles I’ve heard argued: stuff about electromagnetic wavelengths, the ear’s cochlear structure, Nazi conspiracy, and “the Devil’s interval”. But I have yet to hear a solid case made for, specifically, how these different tunings have any objective impact on the body or the mind.
@nickjmcclure, I suspect it is all over when you observe that “a pitch is a pitch.” Like you, I don’t really care one way or another with the outcome of this discussion. But, I think it is reasonable to say it is highly probable that you are not immune to your sensory inputs. Maybe you don’t really care about the color a room is painted, or your house, or you car. Maybe you will wear any shirt or pattern in any combination with the rest of your clothes. Perhaps you are indifferent about whether it is hot or cold or wet or dry when you venture outside, or you swim amongst the ice at the beach on the worst of winter days. Maybe you can ignore the sound of fingernails on a blackboard, are agnostic to all foods, flavours, and smells. Don’t mind if it is vinegar or salt or sugar water. The feel of a hair shirt . . . But if you have sensory preferences, there is a possibility that you choose to listen to some styles of music over others or some combinations of sound. Perhaps you prefer Schaefer to Bach, the sound of a bottling factory over silence. However, there is a possibility that in each of these cases, your choice of sensory input leads to an effect on you, a differential development of your character. If you have made it this far, I hope I have made my point . . .
So a pitch is not a pitch, and a colour is not a colour? Then, most of us should keep their walls not white, but let’s say – blue.. i mean, because of bla-bla : )
Thank you for the research, and I have to say this is a really interesting blog.The result is exactly the same what was written on my chromatic tuner, before it landed in the dustbin ages ago. It said: 420~440 and I am amazed that people have been voting for only that direction.
The first thing what we have to do is to help your pitch shifting plugin. So we have to get rid of those crazy frequencies what was given in the first place.
416 can handle 1,2,4,8 waves
420 can handle 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,10,12 waves
424 can handle 1,2,4,8 waves
432 can handle 1,2,3,4,6,8,9,12 waves
440 can handle 1,2,4,5,8,10,11 waves
444 can handle 1,2,3,4,12 waves
448 can handle 1,2,4,7,8 waves
456 can handle 1,2,3,6,8,12 waves
465 can handle 1,2,3,4 waves
Obviously you have to get rid of 416, 424, 448, 465 frequencies to give a chance to the plugin, and the listeners too.
good ones are:
420, 432, 440, 456
If its too few, use 444 instead of 448 because that can be divided by 12, and we are playing music on 12 notes, in 12 keys in 2 directions to the left and to the right.
420 432,440,444 456
changing key stays in key changing key
The problem with 420 and 456 might changing keys that they do it opposite directions. So that is why you have to really keen on picking the music.
Trying explain quickly:
keys on piano: to the left:F center:C to the right:G
keys on guitar: to the left:C center:G to the right:D
Please do not use music written in F or D or further down the road, two give a chance both pianists and guitarists at the same time, give chance to 420 and 456 as well, and most importantly give a chance for the young listeners. Yeah I know sticking to only C and G keys is boring, but this is a research. Maybe you could use music written in pentatonic scales to cheat a bit.
Music is about how to cheat on music theory itself, and what direction we cheating.
Hoping, that you redo your test
You have made an assumption that it is important whether the number of cycles per second is divisible by a whole number. That suggests that the second, which is an arbitrary unit of time has some absolute meaning in relation to music perception. Can you explain and provide evidence to support your assertion?
Of the two examples above that you uploaded I preferred the top one didn’t sound so harsh to me I’m not sure whether that was the 440 but I’m guessing it was the 432.
There is one thing that is I didn’t see mentioned. A lot of people psychologically predispose themselves to like or dislike certain things. It’s *very* hard to be thoroughly objective once such a predisposition has been made.
And, for both the 432 and the 444 Hz folks this *may* be the case.
The only way I can be sure for myself is to drag the synth of of storage and adjust the master clock.
But, then, how can I be sure I am being objective seeing that the only music I can play has always been played at 440!
I think the bigger question is who are you playing music with? Can their instrument be tuned to either 432 or 444? If not then you’ll just have to live with 440. 🙂
I read several purportedly scientific write-ups and they are all either pro from the start or con from the start.
And, it is interesting how little details like the size of a container or room are left out. (Both of which affect resonance.)
The bottom line is, this is all personal preference.
Unless someone can come up with a double-blind health study saying one of these tuning causes cancer, enjoy music your way. 😀
Interesting study. I tried a little experiment of my own. the pitch shifter really didn’t change much at all. However when I actually tuned my guitar Using a digital tuner calibrated to 432 hertz I notice a noticeable difference in how the same some played “Live” affected me and how it appealed to me. It seem less noticeable but still tangible when recorded and played back eve on high quality reproductive sound gear…… Is it possible something get lost inherently in the translation from live to analog or digital that is less detectable? Sort of like when you use a graphic equalizer on a sound even though the frequency remains constant by adjust the quality of dominant over and under tones of a note it loses something if it’s done done just right? Just a thought.
When using Audacity as most people do, the changing speed method is best. But with Adobe Audition you get a far better result without artifacts.
The best 432
failed experiment, (which are most projects with such an assumption in the title) First of all it’s quit likely that most of your testsubjects choose the common familiar 440. Too bad you were not testing the 432 hertz at all this way. All instruments must be tuned with A=432 etc. New title for this article perhaps: ‘Not proving that pitch shifting to 432 Hz doesn’t improve music’. The ignorance, for so many centuries this has been common tuning, not for no reason. It’s not that 440 tuning is evil, it is simply missing something that can connect with nature.
This video will demonstrate how 432 hz tuning of the drums and electric bass guitar interacts with the Om tone of a Tibetan singing bowl.
QuartzThrust is an experimental band from Sacramento utilizing 432 hz scientific tuning and improvisation. I wanted to make spiritual music that reflects my own personal style. New album available for download 12/3/15 from QuartzThrust.bandcamp.com also hear samples at soundcloud.com/quartzthrust
I apriciate that you did that experiment, but I think it is not enough to use pich shifter. By default, every pitch shifting software distorts the sound, so we should record music with acoustic instruments tuned at 432hz, and then compare results.
Dear mr. Cox, I am interested very much in acoustic (not professionally, but personally) so I am interested in your blog. But why do you write at the top “432 versus 440 herz ” ? With large letters. Your research is not really it. Why don´t you change the title to accurate ? It seems to me, as if sameone writes… for example… test of Potato porridge vs dumplings … and would test all dumplings made from stale powder mixture and compare it with porridge made of fresh cooked potatos. Only the other title is nearly accurate. (Pitch shifting doesn´t… if only you would write it, subjectively perceived, doesn´t improve the music-because that is what you have proved-you didn´t research the health etc…) I understand that you are just testing what the people do, but please adjust the title to it. It is supposed to be the science, icluding the titles.
P.S. I share the opinion, such strange shifting is silly and cannot improve Music, but when we do science, we distinguish opinions from research… I love both playing and singing in 432 or 440 pitch, hope nobody will shift it.
Best wishes, Anna from the old continent
Birds sing in 432 hz. – argument is now moot!
That’s interesting. Can you say more? Like where you heard that birds sing in 432 hz? Or why that would mean music would sound better with a set to 432 hz?
you really have no idea why people are switching from 440 to 432? it has nothing to do with making it sound better. it resonates at a more healing frequency.. that is always said in stories about 432, but hey, why investigate a story before you puke stupid all over it?
Pythagoras opined that everything in the universe is vibrating and are in Harmony. Sound is the outcome of vibration, and to tune up ourselves with relation to the Cosmos, we need to follow the natural tone at 432 and be in harmony with oneself and others. Love, Peace, Light, Thanks, Meditate.
We are made of vibration and frequency. Our body’s and DNA literally are sound. When listening to 432 hz it just feels better to me. A very large problem with scientists today and even wannabees like myself and the other commenters, is that we as westerners rely to much on evidence and logic to rationalize what we know as truth and is either good or bad for us.
Intuition, feeling and sense are what is needed to understand and truly grasp the concept of Cymatics and the 432 equation. Knowledge and stats are useful, without being able to feel and sense it and have some type of body awareness to how it resonates with you, then you stuck in your left brain and not accessing your right brain.
432 Hz helps to harmonize both sides of the brain and helps heal and cleanse the body. Here is a good video that visually shows the differnce between the 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zw0uWCNsyw
The problem is that like the shills pretending to be skeptics, you’re ignoring the science that exists, and you’re defaulting to woo-woo bullshit because you don’t want to take the time to learn about what’s real.
What we know: hearing is a resonance phenomenon. If tissues in your hearing apparatus didn’t resonate, you wouldn’t hear anything. If other tissues didn’t resonate in response to sound waves, you would feel anything, either. We also know that some frequencies are more resonant than others, hence the use of scientific pitch (256 Hz) tuning forks in audiology to detect certain types of hearing loss; a tuning fork in a 440 Hz based equal temperament doesn’t work for that sort of thing, because the resulting resonance is too superficial. It’s also why a 256 Hz tuning fork can be used to detect bone fractures, whereas a C fork in 440 tuning doesn’t work.
Essentially, temperaments work like wavelength bands in the light spectrum: move the reference pitch up or down, and the entire temperament moves up or down, producing different resonance results as a whole. Some wavelengths of light are harmful to human health; particularly people with diseases like porphyria (very specific wavelength bands in the yellow, green, blue and purple regions) or xeroderma pigmentosum (UVA). Likewise, some sound frequencies can have effects on human tissue that differ depending on the placement of a temperament in the general spectrum of sound. That’s why 432 Hz tuning advocates describe feeling 432 Hz tuning more internally (primarily in the nerve plexuses and bones), and 440 Hz tuning more externally (primarily in the skin and sternum). I’ve experienced this myself, even before I knew anything about 432 Hz tuning. For example, Pantera tuned to 432 Hz; when I had a broken knee, I couldn’t listen to them, because my knee would resonate and the fracture would grind and cause me a lot of pain. That was before I knew anything about 432 Hz tuning, and when I didn’t know they tuned to that frequency.
My brother had a similar experience when he came over to jam while nursing a fractured rib. I also put on some 432 Hz cello music when he came for Christmas dinner a few weeks later, and it made him ill. So there are definitely different effects from 432 Hz tuning than from 440 Hz tuning or any of the other reference pitches.
All the numerology stuff is nonsense, because a) numerology is a pseudoscience, b) the measurements of heavenly bodies used in 432 Hz discussions are not precise, but are rather generalizations (numerology only works if the numbers are precise), and c) there is no objective correlation of cause or effect between measurements of sound frequency and measurements of planets and astronomical distances. Any correlations are purely symbolic, and inaccurate symbolism when you consider that numerology relies on precise numbers to have meaning. So even if you’re using that symbolism in some sort of magical ritual, the imprecision of the correspondences would neutralize any intended effect, because 432 Hz tuning of any kind doesn’t really “align with the planets”.
The cymatics stuff is nonsense because there are all sorts of errors in the cymatics thing that falsify it as any sort of tool for determining differences in how 432 Hz tuning affects things, and even if that weren’t true, it wouldn’t tell us anything about how it affects human tissue on the cellular level. All you have is pretty patterns in sand or water, not a map of microbiological effect. It doesn’t tell us anything about how that resonance affects solid and liquid matter in a cellular structure, and no one has done any tests to determine such effects at the microscopic level.
Yes, 432 Hz tuning does feel different, and it can enrich the visceral experience (and hence the emotional experience), but that’s not evidence of any objective healing or mystical effect. No studies have been done to determine the effects on neurological tissues, so we don’t know how much of what people report is placebo effect and how much is actual physiological effect of resonance on brain chemistry. People claiming they had a mystical experience or an enhanced healing experience is not enough to make claims, especially when people claim to have had such experiences while listening to music rendered in 440 or other tuning systems.
I’ve been listening to 432 Hz music for decades and didn’t even know it. Some of my favorite bands tuned to 432 Hz and didn’t say anything about it, or they lied about it when asked. I have some pretty serious health problems, variegate porphyria being one of them, yet listening to that music never healed me of any diseases. My experience with bone fracture pain also tells me that if you have a bone fracture, you don’t want to see a 432 Hz band play live, or even listen to their music reasonably loud at home if you don’t want to feel some excruciating pain.
Another problem you’re having is that you’re faulting our host here over some imaginary issue. He’s not trying to discount anything valid, or dismiss actual 432 Hz music; he’s only pointing out the nonsense associated with pitch shifted 432 Hz music, which is not the same as music actually tuned and recorded in 432 Hz. It was never his purpose here to investigate the differences between actual 432 Hz tuning and 440 Hz tuning. Pitch shifted music may still have similar resonance-inducing effects, but aesthetics-wise, it’s not the same as listening to actual 432 Hz music, because you don’t get the instrument timbre changes and changes in non-harmonic overtone presence.
The reality is that most people cannot hear the difference even when it’s real 432 Hz tuned music, and unless they’ve been told that the music was tuned and recorded in 432 Hz, they’re not going to know. They might feel something they don’t normally feel from 440 Hz music or feel it more intensely, but unless they have perfect pitch, they’re not going to know that it’s not standard tuning. For example, most people don’t know that Stone Temple Pilots tuned to 432 Hz, or that Disturbed switched to 432 Hz a couple albums back after touring with them and learning their secret. Nobody knew Pantera tuned that way either, or that Down and Crowbar tune 432 Hz. None of these bands say anything about it, because they DON’T want people to develop a bias, either for or against their music.
The superficial point of this experiment is that most people are not going to prefer 432 Hz pitch shifted music over the original if they don’t have a preconceived bias, and that people naturally tend to not like music tuned to a pitch higher than 440 Hz in absence of any knowledge of the difference. The deeper point being made here is that if people don’t know how a band tunes, they’re not going to know there’s a difference. That means any effect is largely subliminal programming via changes in resonance; it feels more intense, so people tend to like it more. They’re either going to like what they feel because they’re unconsciously looking for that sort of experience (i.e. one that they can associate with the effects of a particular drug they like, a meditation/paranormal experience, or a traumatizing or escapist emotional experience they value), or they’re not.
That’s why the Beatles were so huge with the counterculture and rebellious youth in general. They tuned 435, then 432 after meeting Ravi Shankar; pretty much any temperament tuned to any pitch reference between A and Ab in 440 tuning is going to produce deeper tissue resonance, and perceptual effects that some people might compare to marijuana. It’s why all my favorite bands that tuned 432 Hz were famous and successful despite the odds. All of the bands I mentioned were panned by critics, and some didn’t receive a lot of industry support, yet they all became highly influential. That’s a subliminal effect on a key audience looking for visceral sensations (i.e. thrill seekers, drug users, rebellious teens, fetishists), nothing more. Other people looking for some other meaning complain about how music tuned to 435 or 432 sounds flat, stoney, old-timey, etc. (why some people don’t like listening to classic rock and psychedelic rock from the era when most pianos were still tuned to 435 Hz).
Lots of people claim to have spiritual awakenings, healings or orgasmic experiences listening to well performed music in 440 Hz or higher tuning, so there’s nothing inherently spiritual or healing about 432 Hz tuning. For example, my cousin once described the music of Coldplay as “spiritual”, and claimed to have had a mystical experience while listening to their music; they originally tuned to 446 Hz, and later switched to 444 Hz, which he didn’t know at the time. I think their music is airy, spacey, sometimes manic (qualities I don’t equate with spirituality), it reminds me of a methamphetamine high, and I hate Chris Martin’s voice, but you get the point. It’s all highly personal and subjective. Different people associate the same sensations with different things.
432 Hz tuning is good for some types of music, but not all types of music. Even then, it provides an almost insignificant edge once you figure in talent, message, subjective audience experience, etc. It’s a great alternative standard, but that’s all it is. Any other claim is a snake-oil claim.
There are plenty of practical considerations for tuning 432, like making it easier on vocalists and bass players because of reduced tension, timbre differences regarded as aesthetic, the subtle psychological effects of enhancing emotional reactions in an audience by resonating their bones and nerve plexuses, etc., but anything beyond that is speculation and pseudo-science. Verdi, the guy who first suggested 432 Hz as a Western music pitch standard was himself an atheist, and his considerations were purely scientific and pragmatic. It’s a fuckton easier to sing bel canto in 432 Hz tuning than in 440 Hz or higher tuning, it puts less strain on stringed instruments, and you get better acoustic instrument projection than with 440 Hz tuning because of the mid-bass and midrange frequency amplification. It’s also easier to keep an audience from falling asleep during a performance, because of the increased visceral stimulation. Tonal openness and better projection are also why it became a preferred reference pitch in Indian classical music (actually, it’s “Ohm” tuning of C# at 136.10 Hz, but that puts A4 ever so slightly sharp of 432 Hz.)
BTW, your notion of right brain and left brain function is based in pseudoscience. The brain doesn’t really work that way. You need to stop reading all the New Age snake-oil crap on the internet and learn some science of how things actually work. I hear bullshit all the time in 432 Hz discussions, like how we only use 10% of our brain, right vs. left hemisphere functions, how our body tissues are literally sound (they’re not), etc. Stop spreading such nonsense. All you’re doing is feeding the shills and stifling further scientific inquiry. And yes, if you’re not a musician or anyone collaterally employed in that industry, then you are a wannabe discussing matters that don’t pertain to you.
Worse, you’re just parroting nonsense you read on the internet written by people who know nothing at all about music, science or history, let alone anything about mysticism or occultism. Learn about that stuff, not about mystical movement bullshit or conspiracy theory nonsense. No one is going to save the world with 432 Hz music; India can’t even save its own people with classical music or any of the mysticism associated with it, and no one ever healed their terminal cancer by listening to Pantera, so that aspect of this discussion is pure bullshit.
The government and the music industry aren’t trying to enslave or sicken the masses with 440 Hz music; if that were true, there wouldn’t be so many different tuning clubs (alternative pitches, alternative tuning standards, drop tuning, etc.), and most bands you like never would have been signed, because the reality is that most people don’t adhere to a universal tuning standard. Most popular artists tune above or below 440 Hz, according to aesthetic or practical purposes. For example, a lot of pop artists tune somewhere around 444 Hz, because it makes the music sound bright and stimulating. Big band jazz musicians also preferred to tune sharp of 440 for the same reason.
This is particularly true in classical music, where the standard varies from country to country; it’s not 440 Hz everywhere. Most places in Europe, it’s 442 Hz. Some places it’s as high as 448 Hz. It even differs from city to city in American orchestras. Pitch wars are all about sounding slightly different to gain a competitive edge. That’s ultimately what this is all about: doing whatever it takes to make money over competitors. People get tired of the same old shit, so you do something a little different to renew their attention. It worked for me; since I posted 432 Hz versions of my songs last July, my following has tripled. As a musician, all I care about is that people are getting my stuff and liking it. If that meant tuning 444 Hz instead of 432 Hz or sticking to 440 Hz, that’s what I’d be doing. 432 Hz just happens to work for my type of music, and affect my target audience the way they want to be affected.
I was thinking of changing my music to tune to 432 hz but I play metal and I’m told that there is a combination of tone of voice as well and the negativity or positivity of the song can induce different reactions no matter what frequency you tune to. I can play slipknot in 432hz but will that make me feel better or still aggravated!? As to say if I was to play John Lennon’s imagine in 432hz!?
It can sound, or rather feel more intense, which is perfect for metal. Click on my name; check out my profile. Open the player, and listen to both versions of Descent Into Death (432 Hz and 440 Hz), through some decent speakers. Notice how it feels different, and how it sounds different. Everything was set up the same for both versions: brand new strings, same EQ and effects settings, same shape and thickness of pick, etc. The only difference is that I recorded the 440 version to 95 bpm, and the 432 version to 94 bpm.
Check out the vids as well; combined with imagery, it makes an even bigger impact.
Search for “432 hz metal” and “432 hz music” on Youtube; there’s some original stuff posted that was tuned and recorded in 432 Hz. Decide for yourself. Or you could just look up Maesyn, Helloween 7 Sinners, Melechesh Enki, or listen to anything ever recorded by Pantera, Crowbar, Godflesh, old STP, or Down (original recordings, not the pitch-down stuff). All that stuff was recorded tuned to 432 Hz. So were the two latest Disturbed albums.
You might feel a little different listening to pitch-shifted metal, but it’s nothing like listening to metal played on instruments actually tuned to 432 Hz. It changes the timbre, changes the amplification of harmonic overtones, and even introduces non-harmonic overtones that aren’t present in 440 Hz tuning. It changes the color, gives the sound more bass, mid bass and lower midrange boost, increases sustain, etc. It’s a visceral thing rather than a skin-chill thing; it can feel like someone is grabbing your guts and throat. You’ll have to factor that in when setting up your amp and mastering EQ; changing the timbre changes how you need to set things up to get a balanced sound. If you leave everything set up the way you normally do for 440 tuning, it can make everything sound meatier than you prefer.
For example, with 440 Hz, I usually set up everything flatline, with everything set to zero on active EQ, including on my bass. But to get the same balance with 432 Hz tuning, I have to turn the bass down half way from that setting if I’m playing through a ported cabinet or ported monitors. It sounds fine with everything flatline if the speaker cabs aren’t ported and the output EQ is flatline, but the bass is completely overkill if they’re ported.
That’s something I’ll have to consider when I master the final release recordings, because you need to account for the broadest range of playback devices and settings that people might use when mastering a commercial product. Most stereo EQ presets boost the treble and bass a little; it won’t matter for the treble end because you get 8 Hz pitch reduction on that end, but it matters for bass, because that 8 Hz drop in the lower end of the sound spectrum boosts things. Mid bass can be particularly troublesome; it can make basslines too boomy.
Some musicians set things up 3-6-9 on passive EQ, or -7, -4, -1 on active to try to get a balanced sound in the master. Some set it up a little different, with more or less treble and mids, but you get the idea. I tried -5, 0, 0, and that sounded a lot better. It might work different for guitar, especially if you play through the bridge pickup. I only play through the neck pickup, so I need to keep the mids equal with the highs.
You’ll also need to set up your guitar a little different; you might need to adjust the truss rod, string action, intonation, etc. I didn’t when I switched, but that’s because I already had intonation problems and my neck was bowed a little to begin with. When I tuned 432, everything lined up perfectly because it was already slightly out of whack at higher tension. The strangest thing is that my bass always sounded out of tune with itself when I tuned 440, and it was a huge pain in the ass to tune; now everything lines up perfect, and it takes a lot longer to go out of tune when I play.
You also want to pluck the strings over the neck pickup when you tune; if you tune over the bridge pickup but pluck the strings with your pick over the neck pickup, you’ll end up tuned flat. The same rule applies if you finger pluck over the bridge pickup; you want to tune wherever the plucking action is going to be, and preferably have one guitar set up for picking and another one set up for fingers.
Anyways, play around with it for awhile; it took me 3 months to accustom to the differences, and I’m still fussing over whether I should stick with 2 mm delrin picks or switch to 1.5 mm celluloid picks. Artificial harmonics don’t ring out quite the same, particularly on bass. You’ll hear the difference when you listen to Descent Into Death. You might find yourself switching to a different pick thickness, material, shape, etc. to get the sound you want. It’s a whole new world.
Firstly, the initial claim is related to health, not preference. Secondly, of course people will prefer the sound of 440hz when the tunes were composed at 440hz. If the tunes you chose where composed at 432, then I’ll lay bets the results would be different.
[…] Cox, Trevor. “Pitch Shifting to 432 Hz Doesn’t Improve Music.” The Sound Blog. WordPress, 13 Dec. 2013. Web. 29 Jan. 2016. https://acousticengineering.wordpress.com/2013/12/13/pitch-shifting-to-432-hz-doesnt-improve-music/ […]
Preference != Psychological effect
The results just as likely prove that people prefer what they’re used to (see: conditioned).
of course it improves music silly… why do you think they used it for 2500 years
All I can say is that when I tune my acoustic guitar and mandolin to 432 to my ear it sounds more pleasing than 440. Its all subjective anyway. If it works for you go for it. If it doesn’t then crank the strings up to 770 and scream.
There’s a slight problem with this web experiment – the web part. Couple of hundred people who passed the test were listening to couple of hundred audio systems and DACs. That could be pro monitors or hi-end systems or 10$ Chinese plastic Genius speakers.
Main point of pitch shift is to reduce distortion (additional obertones) generated by AS.
This only makes sense if AS itself creates moderate amounts of distortion. Effect much less noticeable on plastic speakers or on systems with a Sub.
Test would be more logical if restricted to at least one type of AS like PC Speakers or Pro Audio Monitors or full size headhpones etc.
There’s a slight problem with this web experiment – the web part. Couple of hundred people who passed the test were listening to couple of hundred audio systems and DACs. That could be pro monitors or hi-end systems or 10$ Chinese plastic Genius laptop speakers.
Main point of pitch shift is to reduce distortion (additional obertones) generated by AS.
This only makes sense if AS itself creates moderate amounts of distortion. Effect much less noticeable on plastic speakers or on systems with a Sub.
4+3+2 = 9 John LENNON Knew
4+3+2 =9 John lennon Knew #9#9#9
The truth is that old stringed instruments around the year 1700 probably would not like the tension of a pitch as high as 440HZ (especially pianos build back then) and the lack of need to fill a huge concert hall with a loud brilliant sound (classic music were not for the masses), had composer like händel and mozart to play in a low pitch around 422-423Hz.. THis also kept the singers being able to belt high notes more in their chest resonance..
Later on the need for a louder, brilliant sound was demanded and the pitch kept rising.. Sometimes as high as 450hz for certain classic genres.
But the singers protested and the French set a standard of 435Hz which was a comprimise between the singers wanting to maintain their voice and the demand for more brilliant and louder orchesters that cuts through..
Most tuning forks in agreement with the french standard was between 433.9hz and 435.3Hz. 432Hz was never a well known standard…
Then there is the story about how the 435Hz was transformed in 1896 to 439Hz in England due to the temperature difference,, which i believe is a non-sense argument… Then they agreed that 439Hz was a prime number and hard to replicate and the standard became 440Hz…
THe truth is that singers still have to work excessively hard when singing at the top of the range at 440Hz.. Singing live in your highest belting range becomes a struggle as you have to focus so much on technique or you will become sore.. The voice will naturally want to sit at 432Hz…. 432Hz is a larynx neutral position.. At 440Hz you have to take of weight (you are more towards your head resonance) especially on the entry note to the passaggio and notes in the passagio…
432Hz is difficult to get used to when listening to classic pop/rock hits.. I got a pretty good sense of pitch and my brain is used to listen to those hits in 440Hz.,, but classical music, opera, and dreamy stuff like Enya sound to my ears better in 432Hz… Heck I listened to whitney Houston “i will always love you” and the high belting notes sounded “goodlike” in 432Hz…
Barfoden, this is why Verdi recommended 432 Hz tuning in the 1880’s, and lobbied the Italian government to make it the standard. His reasons were purely practical health concerns, and to preserve bel canto.
As for amplification, high pitch wasn’t really for that, because they simply adjusted the orchestra size to accommodate larger venues. Increasing the pitch to increase audibility only has value in an outdoor environment, such as when watching a marching band on a windy day.
Pitch wars are to increase the sense of stimulation over lower pitch competitors. Unfortunately for orchestras, it doesn’t work that well; since the reintroduction of pitch wars in modern times, classical music has lost its popularity, probably because pitches higher than 440 tend to be TOO stimulating, and because they make music sound too narrow and shrill.
As for the adoption of 440 Hz as a pitch standard, the Austrians and Germans had already done that in 1800’s.
I’ve been listening to a lot of pop stuff lately, and I’m noticing some new formula trends. One is that everyone sings the same style, another is that all the songs have identical influences, and they all have the same reverb and other effects. They also sound ethereal, in a slowed down, flattened sense. I haven’t done any tuning checks, but it sounds like they’re tuning low pitch; maybe not 432 Hz, but something low. The music feels extremely sedative, so apparently, the major labels (or producers, or maybe the artists themselves) are aware of the psychological effects of pitch and are using it to achieve that effect.
The 432 Hz camp has made so much noise that the industry has perked up and manufactured a new generation of formula muppets to lull the masses into stupidity and apathy. Apparently, low pitch works better than 440 Hz for whatever application you intend, be it good or evil, to suppress or to incite.
No matter what intentions some small group has for using an alternative pitch or other alternative standard, industry will find a way to exploit it. So in the end, the only considerations that matter are practical ones. Musicians should switch for health reasons or aesthetic reasons, but anything aside from that is pointless.
Get over it, there is _no way_ of tuning a non-digital instrument (let alone an orchestra) to exactly 432 Hz or 440 Hz. Any wind instrument for example will change by several Hertz during the playing of a longer piece because of being warmed up by the breath. A chuch organ rises and falls by several Hertz with changing room temperature. The human voice is definitely not able to reliable hold a pitch more exactly than within a 2 or 3 Hertz range – comfortably sounding voices with a slight natural vibrato constantly vary by 4-5 Hertz at least due to the vibrato alone. Unaccompanied choirs often fall from 440 to 420, or rise from 430 to 450 Hertz within a three-minute song without sounding out-of-tune.
The claim that 432 Hz was in any way preferred in the classical era is a barefaced lie: Händel’s tuning-fork for example gave 422 Hz, and the organs Bach played on were all about the place between roughly 400 and 500 Hz, depending solely on the taste of the builder and the state of repair they were in.
No symphony orchestra today plays at exactly 440 Hz, but usually rather sharper (around 442-444 Hz). BTW that’s just about the pitch you get in a heated concert-hall after tuning up to 432 Hz at 15 degrees Celsius (the “normal” temperature at which the pitch of wind instruments is adjusted by the makers).
“Then there is the story about how the 435Hz was transformed in 1896 to 439Hz in England due to the temperature difference,, which i believe is a non-sense argument… Then they agreed that 439Hz was a prime number and hard to replicate and the standard became 440Hz… ”
No nonsense at all: The French standard was 435 Hz at 15 degrees Celsius. The pitch of organ-pipes and wind instruments changes with air temperature, because the speed of sound in air changes (cf. Wikipedia on that subject). The English decided to use a more practical version of “French pitch”: The concert organ in Queen’s Hall was carefully tuned to 435 Hz at 15 deg.C room temperature, and then the effective playing pitch was checked during a performance in the heated hall full of people during a performance. The organ A under these more natural circumstances had risen to 439 Hz, so they chose that as their new standard for tuning pianos. It does not help after all if e.g. the piano and organ, both tuned to 435 at 15 deg.C, drift apart (one to, say, 434 and the other to 439) at an actual concert taking place at a comfortable 22 deg. room temperature!
You might be right Chrisz78 but I will state and keep on stating,,, 435Hz is as much better pitch for singing high belting stuff ,, I tried it at home on tough songs and the result is always the same and the same applies for the leadsinger in the band (he natural register is a ~ half tone higher than me),, we feel lees stressed, but at 435Hz there is no loss of “energy”, it does not take anything away from the classic tracks we play and more importantly we sound better…..
Its not until you get down to 430-432Hz that some of my sings in H-Major songs or his songs in C-major songs becomes a bit too “different” sounding Hence I find 430-432Hz works better for smooth relaxing music..
The voice can’t be tuned like an instrument…
We need to get back to the Diaspason normal at 435Hz…The 435Hz argumentation back in the 1850’s have legit merits as they took the singers and their voices into consideration.. I found no such arguments for 440Hz standard…
The result is that pop/rock singers for a lot of them are at the absolute limit of what their voice can do on a recording in the studio and the singer only goes into the studio on a really good day to belt out those notes,,,
But live most can never do this without sounding stressed and hence transpose the song to the next half note… My point is that a tuning down to 435Hz would take nothing away from the song and make the singer sound better in a live situation… I find it very weird why bands do not try a lower pitch (435Hz is accessible on most tuners) before resorting to E-flat tuning..
Seriously go and listen to “i will always love you” with WHitney Houston in 432HZ (find a good quality conversion) and compare to 440Hz.. The high belting notes to me ears sound more natural an smoother,, and I can judge from the color of those high belts in 432Hz tuning that it is more natural for her voice to belt at that pitch than 440Hz… Other songs are just slightly to smooth in 432Hz but thats where 435Hz comes in…
@barfoden The absolute highest note that a singer can hit is not typically part of a song. So if Whitney Houston’s absolute high note is like C6 I find it hard to believe tuning down micro-tonally would make that C6 that much easier to hit. And if a song is just normal range notes with nothing approaching the top range (which I would think is most typical), tuning down a bit doesn’t make the song easier for the singer.
I’ve wonder if a singers vibrato might be just as much a change as this 440 vs 432. Like, Is a singer’s vibrato on A 440 wide enough that 432 is hit and whatever the higher frequency would be?
Its the register shifts (passaggios) that are placed badly at 440hz for voices. when you go down to 435hz all tension on A3 and D#4 starts to dissapear and when you hit 432hz the E4 which tend to be tricky for my baritone voice becomes easy to sing…
wg,, I can’t explain it,,, you have to be a rutined singer to understand it after you tried going back and fourth between 440Hz and the 435HZ DIapason normal.. .. ..
You might want to try it with something other than this out-of-tune crap here.
Western culture has listened to, and so “imprinted” to modern A440 standard. It seems to me that this would skew any test of preference taken by a person who grew up listening to this Western culture tuning standard. India uses movable “Sa,” Balinese gamelan instrument sets are tuned unique (for ombakan). Tuning string instrument a little looser is good for the instrument”s harmonic producing capability, but depends upon the kind of instrument: too loose is floppy. Need more rigorous and defined experiments in this area to come up with better science.
And here are the bestl reasons to use 432Hz tuning. I use 432Hz tuning on my spanish guitar because my strings last 3 times longer then when tuning to 440Hz with the same strings. If we consider one set of strings, like let’s say Savarez Alliance Classical, cost about 18 euro, with 432Hz tuning I will have to buy new strings only after 4 weeks when with 440Hz tuning and same strings I would buy new strings every week!!!! So 440Hz tuning costs 72 euro per 4 weeks, 432Hz tuning costs 18 euro per 4 weeks. Now if that is not a good reason to play 432Hz!!!?? Also 440Hz music makes me nervous so I tend to eat more. Then not only I become fat and ugly but I also have to buy new clothes and stronger chairs to sit on. So 432Hz tuning also makes me have a more attractive body and spend less on new clothes and stronger chairs. Also at the end of the day listening to 432Hz tuned music makes me sleep better so I don’t have to use sleeping pills which are chemicals thus bad for health. Finally a guitar tuned in 432Hz has much lower tension and since I play for about 6 hour per day, with 440Hz my back hurts so much that I had to pay 35 euro for a physiotherapist each week. With 432Hz tuning, my back pain has gone!!! So that’s another 140 euro saving pero month!!! I don’t know guys, but if you are a guitar player, do not hesitate to tune to 432Hz, you will save about 250 euro per month, sleep better, sound better and even become a better guitar player.
I would really like a scientic study being made to investigate a large number of singers of different vocal catagories (bass to soprano) on different pitches using equal temeperant such as the standard 440Hz.
HIgh orchesteral tuning 444Hz, The Diapason normal at 435Hz and the Verdi tuning at 432Hz.. Maybe include a low old clasical A4 around 423Hz (the same as going up to 448.3Hz and tune done a haf step),,,, and see at which pitch their respective passaggio feels easiest to sing through…Going from mid register to a connected head register (not disconnected falsetto)..
I bet my money on that 440Hz will not come on top….
I don’t believe the dofference is something we can just hear. The 432 hz isn’t about the sound quality of the music, it’s about how the vibrations react with our natural vibrations of our bodies. You probably won’t hear a big difference, and it probably won’t make you feel different listening to a single song. If you go into it thinking it is not going to work then you probably won’t benefit from it at all. Read up on ancient civilizations and their use of frequency. Read about chakras and monks and all that stuff. After that you’ll see it isn’t so illogical that it very well could apply to the series of vibrations we call music.
LOL!!! 😀 Only the people who don’t have the capability to hear the diferents can’t hear it! That is correct! It’s only given to does who have a real ear for real music and sound!
Your conclusion may be flawed because of the availability– or familiarity –heuristic.
An opera singer with “perfect pitch” has trained his/her ear to 440Hz music. He or she would likely prefer 440Hz music to the more esoteric 432Hz tuning. Similarly, we’ve all listened to 440Hz music for our entire lives. We have grown accustomed to it and it sounds “right.”
Flaw in study. Availability (or familiarity) Heuristic. We like what we know. We’ve been trained to “perfect pitch” on 440 Hz. We only hear music played at 440Hz. No surprise we prefer what we are used to.
I prefer the lower pitchs, 440 Hz sounds to itchy for me, but that`s just my taste. It`s good to see people doing this kind of questioning, music needs brains not robots.
How about freedom of tuning? How about letting anybody tune his guitar, ukelele, harp or violin just the way he or a group of people who play together, feel it sounds best? This can mean that one song might sound better if tuned in 435,29 Hz while another song would sound better in 442,57 Hz. Also, in the morning a song might sound better if tuned in 433,83 Hz while maybe in the evening sound better in 438,41 Hz. And in summer I prefer 443,25 Hz while in the winter I prefer a lower pitch like 436,41 Hz. Also, we should not forget that if you are on a mountain 1500 m heigh, best pitch is 444,39 Hz and if you are at sea level, best tuning is 439,18 Hz. And I almost forgot, your body weigh and what you eat and drink also makes a difference. Fat people prefer lower pitch lije 430,34 Hz while thin people prefer 438,50 Hz. By the way, weather us critical aswell. If it rains, I prefer 435,31 Hz and if it cloudy, 443,29 Hz. If it sunny, best pitch is 431,67 Hz, it seems. And we should not forget, geographical location also matters, people living closer to the north pole, tend to like music tuning in 432,26 Hz and those living at the edges of the south pole prefer 435,94 Hz. What I found strange was that speed of a persons movement through space, did not affect preferences at all. This is strange because if you live closer or at the north pole, your speed is close to 0 km/h while if you live close the the equator, you spin 1000 km/h because the earth is a ball, right? So I found it strange. I honestly expected people whi donot spin 1000 km/h around the axis of the earth, to prefer a higher pitch tuning then those who are almost still. But in both cases it was 432,33 Hz. I hope this helped us understand everybody or any band should tune the way they want. Kind regards
I’m not going to pretend I know anything about music because I really don’t.
My comment is directed at your study in general. In my experience people generaly don’t just change their tastes, familiarity almost always wins. If your used to hearing music broadcast/played on a particular vibration, a one time hearing will not cause a person to change preferences. For example, How many times have you heard a song or piece of music and hated it. However, If you listen to that song regularly , over time you will be singing the words or humming the tune. This happens to the ‘majority’ of people. It takes a period of ajustment. I’m sure you’ve heard the saying “Habits die hard”. A bag of chips or a macdonals for most is tastier than a bag of salad. We dont necessarily recognise what makes us feel better, these things take time. I
Personally i prefer to go along the path of asking why was the music resonance was deliberately altered. Understanding the agenda will take us directly to the heart of the matter.
spot on rob.. We have trained our ear to equal temperant with A4=440Hz for all of our life.. We tend to prefer what we are used to…
I have though listened to a lot of music pitched down to 434.94Hz (-20 cents) or 435.19Hz (-19 cents).. for a long period at home and are starting to prefer that pitch for most songs and find 440Hz sharp and a bit to “hyped”…
I find tuning down to 432Hz a bit to deep for most of the pop/rock stuff but works nice classical and claming music..
I appreciate you taking the time to do your own experiment but your test is false advertised… you claim tuning doesn’t improve music when what you tested was what people preferred… this is no way to conduct an experiment, there is no inference to link “improved experience with music” with what people preferred… the title of your experiment should be “a blind study shows 432 tuning is not preferred over other tunings when compared on a YouTube channel”. The concept of 440 vs 432 is vibrational, something that must be tested in other ways besides a simple retuning of a song and let untrained people try to tell you what they preferr. Instruments have been tuned to 432 (usually attributed to being a natural tuningredients similar to a bird call or resonating blissfully with other natural occurring sounds) for THOUSANDS of years how can you try to debunk this by letting a couple hundred people try to tell you what they prefer in a line up of other tunings… this experiment proves nothing so please don’t claim it is. You must be able to compare what these sounds do to our being, map out what these frequencies are capable of. We are water so frequencies and vibrations matter I woukd go with our brothers tuned to 5 thousand years ago rather than what an elitist group of people’s standard that was set 65 years ago….
wow… its not abiut improving the quaLity of the sound. its about reversing purposely disharmonic frequencies that cant be heard that keep us fense as hell and dumbed down, as demonstrated here
it is better to hear self then to read about it in txt format. Anybody can self experiment with A432Hz instrument tune. I could recommend a free iOS player what supports 432Hz option. http://www.alphasxplayer.com
On my test the effect is strong and obvious especially on classical music. In any way it is better to hear classical music as compositors imagined it in past
A quote from Susan Alexjander, M.A.
(The Infrared Frequencies of DNA Bases, as Science and Art)
“After weeks and weeks of experimenting with different sound combinations on the synthesizer, a tonal center began to emerge. One pitch seemed to draw other pitches to it …to lend coherency to the mass. This pitch turned out to be a kind of a C#, common to all the bases…”
Adenine: 545.6 Hz
Guanine: 550 Hz
Thymine: 543.4 Hz
Cytosine: 537.8 Hz
I find Susan’s results very interesting since for nearly a decade I have naturally discovered and enjoyed playing my guitar in a D-Tuning (A=432Hz) …given the understanding that a C# in A440, is equivalent to a “D” when tuned to A432.
Isn’t it even more interesting to consider that the tonal center of this tuning locates the note “D” precisely at 547Hz, which is perfectly within the optimal range of Susan’s findings.
Apparently, not only do all my instruments resonate more freely-beautifully-blissfully when tuned and played at A432, …but the biochemistry of living cells as well seem to prefer the A432 tuning!
Of course, if test results in the way of numbers fail to convince you, check out the photographs at a link below showing the difference in appearance of how water resonates at 432 and 440 Hertz:
Its all about vocal register shifts,,,
I have done so much research on this topic and the result is clear.. Tuning down 32 cents to 432Hz keeps the notes within the 12-TET scale within defined registers.. At 440Hz your passaggio between chest and middle is shifted up one half note..
THe entire middle register notes have a resonance with 440Hz tuning that sits high in the throat and have a rather unnatural and uncomftable feel especially for less trained singers.. The passaggio between middle and chest is also shifted up a half key at 440Hz tuning vs. 432Hz…The head notes also have an unpleasent high placement in 440-443Hz tuning…
435Hz was chosen in France in 1859 as it is the highest pitch that a true soprano can maintain the high F5 in their richer fuller middle register..At 440Hz to 443Hz pitch that note is for most sopranos shifted to head resonance..
“Pulling chest” is a typical result of 440Hz tuning…
The weird thing is that most tuners with a calibration range of 436Hz to 445Hz actually represent the transition range between notes in the 12-TET scale in regards to human voices register shifts…. If you go above 445Hz to say 448Hz and drop 100 cents you get a very low “A4” at 423Hz which is what Mozart and Händel tuning forks were at. (modern G#4 is 415.3Hz)…
A standard for A4 would more logically be set at 435Hz with a tuner calibration range from 431Hz to 440Hz. 435Hz keeps you just below the transition point though still a little effort has to be considered when singing the first middle/head passaggio note (E4 in my case) and upwards into head register .. At 432Hz its easy peasy..,And if you are not comftable singing in your headregister you got that E4 note (323.63Hz) as your highest note.. At 440Hz your highest note becomes D#4 (311.13Hz) as you would tend to pull chest and sing flat on E4 (329.63Hz).
This is exactly what I experience with a singer within the same fach as me. He would “Pull chest” on E4 and be slightly flat as he was not comftable shifting gears on that note…
I’ve been considering this more, and the whole idea of tuning to 432 Hz revolves around establishing C4 at 256 Hz, a.k.a. scientific pitch, named so because it can be evenly divided by 2 all the way down to 1. But you only get A4 = 432 Hz if you’re using Pythagorean temperament with whole numbers. It doesn’t work out that way in equal temperament. Tuning to 256 Hz in ET comes out to A4 = 430.54 Hz.
If you tune to 432 Hz in ET, it puts your C4 at 256.87 Hz. If you tune to 430 Hz, it puts your C4 at 255.64 Hz. So if your aim is to be as close to scientific pitch as possible as your actual tuning reference, then the only way to do so sans a tuner that uses 256 Hz as the reference pitch for ET is to tune to A at 430 Hz. That way, instead of being 87% of a Hertz sharp of scientific pitch, you’re merely 36% of a Hertz flat.
Interestingly, I’ve noticed that tuning 432 Hz has always sounded a little sharp to me. I think that’s because after listening to a 256 Hz tone, I established it as my pitch reference, so tuning 432 Hz will sound sharp to my ears. Likewise, tuning to 430 Hz sounds slightly flat to my ears, but the flatness is so subtle that I don’t really notice it. The deviation from scientific pitch with 432 Hz tuning is greater than with 430 Hz tuning, making it sound more out of tune to anyone who has established 256 Hz as their reference pitch.
I’ve listened to some music that was recorded tuned to 430 Hz, and it actually sounds more in tune to me than music recorded tuned to 432 Hz. So until I can find a chromatic tuner that lets you tune to C4 at 256 Hz, I think I’m going to switch to tuning to 430 Hz.
At first listening to vocal tracks converted to 432Hz sounds weird at first but you get quickly used to it,, after a while when you go back to 440Hz you are shocked about the difference.. It sounds so bad… I kid you not..
Avoid 440Hz like the plague for vocal music.. -20 cents (435Hz) has enough brightness and energy for pop music.. Down at -32 cents (431.94Hz) things sound a bit to lax for some genre..
430 Hz is classical pitch. I’ve heard pop tuned 430, and it sounded fine; without listening to 440 music first to establish a reference, no one would notice any difference, aside from it feeling better. Search for 430 Hz on SoundCloud, and you’ll find some interesting examples.
But I agree, 440 is taking its toll on vocalists, and it makes things harder for instrumentalists as well. I think 430 Hz would be a good standard to replace 440 Hz; it’s a good compromise between low and high pitch, and there are plenty of musicians already doing it. Too much negative connotation has been attached to 432 Hz. People ruined it by associating it with all the mystical stuff and conspiracy theory nonsense.
The bad thing is that people have developed an expectation around 432 Hz because of all the myths. That hasn’t helped my career any since I posted 432 Hz versions of my material; I attracted a bunch of connections, but not a lot of repeat listeners. All the 432thers coming to my profiles expecting to find hippie nonsense are disappointed when they find emotionally intense gothic metal.
French pitch is okay, but it’s still a little higher than the natural tendencies of the human voice. Most untrained singers without perfect pitch will be in tune with a reference A somewhere right around 430 Hz if asked to sing without a reference. Singing as close as possible to the natural human range is probably best for vocal health.
Unfortunately for your experiment this is a re-discovered scientific fact, cymatics is used by all on planet earth and although the human ear will not pick up the differences between 432 and 440hz your body that is mostly water will react; water memory. It goes a lot deeper than just simply playing songs to people in different frequencies and seeing if they hear the difference, you could argue that to test them they must be resonating a certain frequency themselves, ie mediated to a certain degree before you play them the samples or songs. cymatics is known but suppressed for its healing and beneficial facts. All life on earth uses cymatics, so to deny its affect through an experiment like this isn’t going to yield results, what are your personal views?
I personally have always felt certain songs and genres have a certain affect on me and after researching a lot of these songs I loved turned out to be 432hz. Jimi Hendrix’s ‘Pali Gap’ always sent me into a beautiful trance ad now I know why, twas recorded in this frequency.
Sonic Geometry: The Language of Frequency and Form on Youtube
I have compared ~430Hz (40 cents) with ~432Hz (32 cents) on multiple tracks using audadicty, I know it’s a bit artificial this way but when you get below -32 cents (as -40 cents as an example) I feel the vocals start getting a little low on the singers low notes.. a bit too sunk down..
I have in increments of 1Hz compared everything from 450Hz to 423Hz on multiple songs on my own voice. I have been singing for many years and know vocal techniques (crossing the passaggio).. 439Hz to 444Hz is weird and high.. does not work for my voice if I want to sing high.. I would have to drop down a half step but still the resonance sits weird and feels unnatural. Moving down from 440Hz to 435Hz you feel how the resonance just gets closer and closer to my relaxed natural state. I still need to do a slight shift in register on the second passaggio at 435Hz but I sound much better as I can blend a bit more of my chest resonance into the notes.
But as Michael said this french pitch (435Hz), as it needs a little transition at the passaggio, is a little to high for untrained singers,, so 432Hz works better as it just the right amount of detuning (-31.77 cents) that separates the notes around the passaggio in a perfect fashion.. The closest pitch in round Hz numbers to scientic pitch would be 431Hz as A4 is 430.56Hz if C=256 using 12-TET…
The weird part is that around 423-424Hz works really well.. High pitched songs becomes a breeze.. But low songs need to be transposed up a half key,, Singing dire straits high at 449Hz (~424Hz) felt natural,, a different expression non the least but easy to find the air pressure and resonance. But at 442Hz is was impossible,, it was neither high enough or low enough..
When orchesters tune to 442Hz (very common) I have no clue what they are thinking in terms of vocal performance.. I can’t stand listening to opera tracks at this high pitch.. It sounds bad as the singers have change their resonance far to much into their head and it creates a thin annoying sound.. I think pavarotti always try to have the orchester tune to 438Hz as there is a tendency during a concert that certain instruments after warming up can move up ~ 8 cents from 438Hz to 440Hz at the end of the concert..
Yes, it is an artificial way, and it won’t give you an accurate estimation of the highs. The sunk down feeling you describe for the low vocal notes is most likely the sensation you feel in your body because of the additional resonance than you don’t get with 432 Hz tuning. It can give you the impression of downward suction in your throat and torso just listening to it. You’ll experience that whether it’s 430 Hz tuned instruments or a pitched down recording.
You should try listening to period performances tuned to 430 Hz so that you get the actual timbre differences associated with this tuning that can’t be reproduced with pitch shifting. The effect is absolutely stunning at concert volume. Here’s a few:
Here’s a video demonstrating pitch-induced mass in water, causing the rise and fall of a bubble as the pitch rises and descends:
the maximum effect of induced mass is achieved at 430 Hz.
Basically, that’s what’s happening in your intracellular and extracellular fluids when you listen to 430 Hz tuned music. That’s what’s causing the pressures in/on your neurons to give you the visceral sensation of feeling the music reverberating inside your body.
432 Hz tuning is close, but it’s just a taste of the full effect you get with 430 Hz tuning. As for 256 Hz, you’re taking about the frequency that induces bone resonance. The peak occurs at 255-256 Hz, and like the resonance effect with 430 Hz, it falls off when you go above 256 Hz. If you tune 430 Hz ET, it puts your C4 at 255.64 Hz, within the resonance-inducing band.
So if peak neural and bone resonance is what you’re going for, tuning 432 Hz ET misses the mark. People get that taste and want the whole experience, so they keep looking for it in 432 Hz music and never quite finding it. That’s why the 432 Hz subculture act like addicts.
You are right,, The difference between A4=432Hz and true “scienctic” A=4=430.54Hz is 5.87 cents or the same difference if you went from 440Hz to 438.5Hz which is very audible to my ears.. If modern A should be this high pitch they should have settled at 438Hz. Even a tenor said that the resonance of 438Hz is the limit for a lot of vocal fachs. (mine included)..
Tuning to 430Hz sounds much more settled than modern baroque pitch at 415Hz which is basically the same tuning as to 440Hz just a half note down at G# so it has the same funky disturbing high resonance..
Eventhough you say that 432Hz misses the mark, i compared a quality conversion of -32 cents (431.94Hz) of Hans ZImmers “a way of life” with the standard 440Hz version and the 32 cents downtuned version overwhelmed me with emotion and made me cry immidiately.. The 440hz version did not have that effect..Maybe you just have to make sure you are always on the low side of 432Hz to get the effect and hence why I proposed tuning to 431Hz with 12-TET as a comprimise. It sets your A slightly lower than Verdis A and C slightly higher than scientific C at 128-256-512Hz..
How do we come about changing the modern standard of A at 440Hz?
How do we unlock us from this weird non-natural high pitch.? That is the real question.
The main argument would be that 432Hz is required to prevent the transition at the passaggios and keep the notes nicely spearated between the passaggios.
Well, 430 Hz is already a standard. Pitch standards or mainly determined by the instrument manufacturing industry; whatever they make and whatever specifications they use determine how their instruments are to be tuned to sound best. It’s a design issue more than anything.
Also, period reproduction orchestras have created the demand; they’ve settled on 415 Hz for baroque pitch, and 430 Hz as standard pitch, primarily because instruments of those periods were specifically designed to be played tuned to those pitches, and because they’re averages of the variety of reference pitches utilized in those periods. (e.g. classical pitches based on 256 Hz as the base reference were A4 at 426-433 Hz, depending on the temperament and composer tweaking. The mean is 429.5, thus rounded up to 430 for convenience.) Even in cases where you can tune them higher, period instruments don’t sound or play well tuned above the manufacturer’s specs; for example, fortepianos. These standards have been established for decades, and they’re not going to change simply because a few people in the fringe decide that 432 Hz is better for classical and 420 Hz is better for baroque.
I don’t see any reason to change classical pitch to 432 Hz. 430 Hz is a good compromise, and that’s what standards are: arbitrary agreements on a mean derived from low and high numbers. Unless a person has perfect pitch, they’re not going to know the difference of 2 Hz, and no one is really going to care anyways, so most of this stuff is a moot point.
I’ve also seen no evidence that 432 Hz tuning is better for bel canto than 430 Hz; most orchestras are doing opera tuned to 430 Hz these days, and it sounds perfect. People are actually becoming interested in opera and symphonies again because of the use of classical pitch; not because they know what it is, but because it makes listening more tolerable and immensely more enjoyable than tuning to 440 Hz or above.
I just know that despite all the efforts to popularize 432 Hz in the last 30 years or so, there hasn’t been any real demand for it; it’s a tuning club based in mystical notions, just like 420 Hz, 424 Hz or 428 Hz, and that’s all it will ever be. People can tune however they like; lots of artists these days use alternative pitches and tuning standards, usually to meet very specific needs or to produce very specific effects. I don’t have a valid reason to use an alternative pitch, and I’m not trying to corner the 432 Hz subculture market on the basis of some shared belief, so for me it serves no purpose to associate my music with that subculture. Associating my music with a fringe group could also undermine my efforts to get a major label contract.
My perspective is pragmatic; if I ever utilize live orchestra in my performances, I’ll have a difficult time finding one that uses instruments designed for 432 Hz. It’s more practical to go with 430 Hz, because it’s the current low pitch standard.
Testing the G#3 and A3 note i can tell you that 216hz/432hz satt better in the throat than 215Hz/430hz. The same with G#3, 31/32 cents down from 415.3hz felt more intuitive than -39/40 cents. The 4 cents shift from 432hz to 431hz is ok but 8 cents to 430hz is too much to my ears and voice.
I get your point..
But 440-443Hz is still the prevalent pitch in classic, opera and 440Hz for pop/rock music and it is generally not a good pitch for singing and I see it ruining some voices in the industry..
In terms of bel canto I am pretty sure that Verdi was an avid opponent of the pitch going any higher than the french pitch at 435Hz, Keeping the pitch from 430Hz-435Hz allows the singer to sing passaggio notes with a fuller chest resonance.. 435Hz you will still need to shift a little (lay of weight) as approach the second passaggio (vocal break) but not a great task for a skilled singer.. .. Down at 430Hz (-39.8 cents) you can be lazy and sing the note will full middle resonance.. Hence why it is a good pitch for untrained singers..
So often you will find popsingers (even the skilled one) performing most of their material a half key down. I am convinced that if they choose to perform at your classical pitch at 430Hz there would be no reason to go down a half step to G#4 (415.3Hz) as 430Hz is fundamentally a relaxed pitch that naturally sets the larynx low…
I spoke to one guy (tenor) who preferred 450Hz to 440Hz and this is no surprise to me as 450Hz would be a very low Bb for him and 100 cents down would be a low A4=424.7Hz,,
THis early register shift phenomen of 440-443Hz tuning should be investigated for a wide range of vocal fachs and see if it is not more or less a common issue.. and that the 100 cents jump (half note) follow more or less the different vocal fachs to a tee..
Have you understand the difference between sense imagination and sensperception?
That is to say about the bases of reasonating with the work of the mind( spirit) for joy classic; or to blind believe in senses, as getting an eruption of feelings of self-degenerating lust romanticism?
Bach was in the Idea of man as a composer, not as a slaveholder of the mind.. It was through love to inspire the people. that was true Knowledge not egoistic opinion with the ill aspect of knowing things you do are bad?
Have an heart for your nature, than you have found something beautiful, that you are innermost different to the alianicing..
Best greetings and freedom
You need to look at the patterns the different frequencies cause in a medium like sand on top of a drum. That’s what people are really saying: That it has an effect not really related to perception.
I think the issue(432 tuning) is a little deeper then you are able to penetrate.
Your experiment would be less bias if people were sensitised and not familiarised with one or the other.
It is known that familiarity is a huge factor you need to consider. The issue with 440 and 432 is not about people consuming music as the eat chocolate. Is about resonance. People cannot tell if mobile phone radiation is damaging or if junk food is good for them because it tastes good.
Hope this helps to look at things more seriously.
Hİ, great topic…
First to say, the experiment has errors in the construction. I adwise u to construct the experiment with a adwisor having experience doing this kind of work. For the people as saying that “its wrong …vs…” in science, there is no wrong, if u construct an experiment, with the results u build up new ideas for new experiments. EXPERIMENTS ARE NOT MADE TO PRUVE SOMETHİNG, EXPERİMENTS ARE MADE TO TEST THE HYPOTHESİS TRUE OR FALSE. FALSE IS ALSO A RESULT AS IMPORTANT AS TRUE !!
ERROR MEANS U HAVE NOT CONSTRUCTED WELL.. U HAVE TO RECONSTRUCT!!!
Second in scientific world, there is no example is acceptable like people can say “i listened … and i felt this or my hernia get well…” To say that kind of data U HAVE TO TEST THE HYPOTHESİS İN A SCİENTİFİC WAY, EVEN İF U CAN HAVE A 10 CM BRAIN TM AND CAN DİSAPPEAR… LINKING THAT WİTH A 432 Hz İS MEAN NOTHİNG, WİLL U JUMP OFF FROM THE TENTH FLOOR BECAUSE SOME ONE HAS JUMPED AND DİD NOT BROKE EVEN A BONE…
People are just want to move from a 440 to A432, and it is acceptible and it is not obligatory, i moved to 432 for just i liked it, and i dont have to prove someone or even myself that it is something miracle will happen with a 432.
Than the question is how to move the pitch ??? even no mp3 or acc shifting prog or plug in can make a TRUE SWİTCH ( I AM NOT SAYING PITCH BECAUSE AS U THINK IT IS A SWITCHING PROCESS) to a 440 to 432. Harmonics are not just making every data below just 8 Hz. If you know a little music u can understand, if u dont have such knowledge just look the frequency tables.
MORE IMPORTENT, MOVING TO 432 DOES NOT MEAN U WILL FEEL SOMETHING AND FEELING NOTHING WILL NOT MEAN IT DOES NOT WORK. !!! It is a populer subject that the numbers are discovered, not invented. Watch the ancient knowledge documentery and want to play a 432 #;-p , there is a homour to make people beleive what u beleive by giving non scientific examples. For the vertab hernia for example is the first examination true with MRI ? ( we say “gold standard” for the highest ranks of sensitivity, specifity and also positive and negative predictive values in the hand) and there is an evidence of disappearing bulging with second MRI AND EVEN BOTH TRUE MEDİCAL KNOWLEDGE KNOWS THAT IT CAN HEAL SPONTANEOUSLY. MORE IS THIS MEANS NOTHING TO SCİENCE AND MEDIC AS A PROBABLITY ALWAYS PRESENT AS A DISEASE HAS ALWAYS HAVE CHANCE TO GET WELL SPONTANEOUSLY.
If you make a desicion you must prove it scientificly and ALSO ANOTHER POINT THAT PEOPLE FORGETS TO SAY IS, THE EXPERIMENTS REPEATED IN THE SAME WAY LIKE THE FIRST MUST GIVE THE SAME SCIENTIFIC RESULTS MADE BY OTHERS IN THE SAME AS MADE BEFORE..
Another point of interest is the religion. There are responders critising the christianity and religion. As a non christ i am, I DONT CRITISE THE BLIEF OF PEOPLE, IN MY RELIGION (I AM A MUSLIM) PEOPLE ARE FREE FOR SELECTING THEIR RELIGION AND IT IS NOT QUESTIONABLE. The point i have to come is numerology and a 432 and golden ratio and numbers are elements that appears before the christ, even before egypt and middle asions of sumers. U have to seek for presanscript languages ever. It may belong to some sync or order by Allah (God), but may not be associated with any religion (although middle east science, arabic math scientists are beleived to found zero and decimal system, i think it is not so simple basic topic to get in.)
İs there a one having the ability of making a perfect tone freq while playing ? even i can say sametimes to myself, while playing wind instruments with freqmeter ( flute, sax, duduk, ney/ kaval ) it is hard to make a correct tone and it is harder than operating a newborn.
Pitch always floats ever with the humidity of woodwids or breath temp. so it is hard to stay on the line, The tonality and specifity of the sound has multiple variables making to sense different ways.
as i searched, the idea that midi coded music can be changed with modification both with the pitch (a true pitch change i mean, not just getting only 8 hz down all ) and also with the scales, i cant write a midi modifier plugin that i will be able to reconstruct a scale of custom made…
in my opinion a 432 may be experimented and must. meaning being consıous is able to ask questions and after experiments to be able to ask other questions. The a432 is not only point, only a little gets over the scaling system or i want to say the word formula. The branch of ” a 432 people” ( the real ones, not just the crowd that just read or listen any information about the topic and believe without any question. i will soon say sth to them …”) must get more time on the search for scaling – construction system. “OR DO WE NEED SCALE OR ANY OTHER NOTES?? “, i would be more happy if i was able to scan frequencies of notes of the organs (pipe-organs) in the Vatikan, they have the real combination for the scale formula i beleive… as they have more ancient sources of what had happened..
For the search, i advise making a fMRI scan while a 432 classic is played ( functional MRI- and also other A’s must be tried, for example for every A pitch from 430 to 450 ) BUT NOT JUST FOR THE BRAIN, BUT ALSO FOR VİSERA).
Now for the words for “pop”; there is a layer who have no conscious, i also rename these people “deadborn” or “unfunctional”, just read, but in real mostly WATCHING NOT READING, just getting info and keep, (they are made a “guestbook” for their lives, who made them so is an other issue) no funtional evaluations or reconstructing or these are not able to sens the reality, that its not just a material thing that resonating makes the water molecules move, or dna proteins resonance makes them move better organised. Sorry but there is no hope for u.
IT IS MORE THAN JUST THIS, HAVE CAN U SEE THE HAPPINES OF A CHILD IF UR EYES ARE CLOSED ??? OF COURSE NOT, BECAUSE U ARE DIRECTED FOR “SEEING” A PHYSICAL SENSE OF MATERIAL AND WİTHOUT THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR U EVER???? CAN U FEEL THE RESONANCE ??? YOU CAN NOT !!! NO SORRY BECAUSE ITS YOUR CHOICE.. U SAY “I DONT REMEMBER” WHEN U MAKE REMEMBER IT U WILL RELIASE BUT IT WILL BE SO LATE… LIVE WITH UR BAD NOISE = MP3, ONLY A MUSIC KILLER…
Waiting for a thing that u do not know or u have not imagine “IMAGINE IS BETTER EVER !!” means ever it comes u will never able to know or sense. There is nothing can be done for these pops.
For the other, it is not just about listening a 432, we need a true constructed scale as only a begining, we will have the letters but making meaningfull words from it will cost a new 2000 or 6000 years maybe more. i am working on a fretless woodwind instrument nowdays. For the A 432 project, i think just C 256-512 freq and A 432 is not alone factors. we hear 432 hz sounds in an ordinary day in an unorganised ways. And the scale formula must have some kind of an order – may not be a systematic formula- but must have an order. and i think that freq point ( -notes-) will have a special characteristics. as only a begining i have made a simle flute just plays 256-512 frq (c2 flute) u can use a synth program but remeber that it makes a distorted sound. i did not saw a synth program ( or my programs so) giving the perfect pure tone as a single sound. it always have distorted – bad output saw teeth patern- when examined with a spectrum analyser thats why i prefered a wood wind may be more wide freq but better resonance… (also the 6000+ panflute exists made of a special material which we can not make even with todays tech)
As an conclusion nothing to say “pop”, you are deadborn… to the article writer, if i was the editor, i would not publish the article ( it has no chance i think in a scsi indexed paper) good start point but not enough, first read the articles (ALL PUBLISHED ARTİCLES) about the topic and make a real acceptable construction for ur hpothesis, (consructing to be able to make parametric tests will make ur scientific significance more powerfull, get adwise from a static prof… ) just a change make the sense ?? try a430 a 432 a436 a 440 … is only the fact is a 432 or only change ??
For the A 432 people, u can enjoy listening, if u are on the way to learn something that over the material world ( -inworld is better ), i can not tell or make u understand your inworld by anyway. a 432 is not alone enough to sense, know or reach anything. Questions makes your way. i made a c2 flute for myself. i can not tell what i sense because it is not only the fact make u sense sth. try urself to fid ur own.
“Knowing the path and Walking the path are totally different things.”
For instrument makers, i like playing, i do not have tech information to cocnclude… but i am angry to you “Why u dont make more fretless woodwind” even ??? @:-)))
A 432 for a specific opera or an symp is another issue, i like verdi !! one of the reason is aida opera, even he constructed new instruments for expose what he feels, ur limit is ur imagination… (thats why there are “deadborn”s no imagination !). İ have not listened a live A -432 so i can not decide what to say. But i can say listening an mp3 record is awfull – THE WORST THING CAN BE MADE TO A CLASSICAL OR EVEN ANY PIECE OF WORK…….., i copy my cd to sony minidisc ( YES MINIDISCS ALIVE — HEYOOO THANKS SONY A LOT ) so it is better dramatically . Even with A 440 live concert, the resonance of the hall with all peaople listening and feeling the REAL MUSIC can not be wordified… what make holy seremonics or church or any sacred holy place is the resonance of human feeling or sth like… ( yes its real, just search and read…). like a live concert may be… “WHAT MAKES A THING SACRED IS THE COMPOUND RESONANCE STORED IN” ( dont forget it may be good or bad ).
Find ur way inside ….
AS A LAST WORD, AS I SAID BEFORE, I DO NOT CRITISE PEOPLE FOR THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEF. IT IS WHY WE ARE… I JUST MENTION THAT THE A 432 ISSUE AND OTHER POINTS ARE JUST NOT CONNECTED TO RELIGIONS BUT I BELIEVE THE EXİSTANCE AND THE RESULTS ARE ALL THE ORDERS OF GOD….THEY EXISTED 6000+ YEARS AGO, AND I THINK IT IS NOT A COINSIDENCE …
Dude the sample is guitar based. 440 suits guitar cos of resnance. 432 and 444 tunings has the full 12 harmonics.440 has 8 cos of harmonic cancilation. Tuining to 444 will take away artifacts not add them. This is way metal sounds shit 432 or 444. They are to purs taking away the grrr from metal. So that test was based on taste. Go listen to electronic music and its a massive difference. You dont get shitty resonance frequency clashes (phasing) which rock suits. So why is it better? No under over tones (artifacts) bluring, ie no phassing so you get long clean powerful basslines. 440 is the standard tuning but not everything needs to be 440hz
For sound (vibrations) to travel you need a carrier, radiowaves. Like how fm radio transmits. Earth’s radiowaves moves sines ay a rate of 432 so pushed sounds at 440 is not the “right”tempo it has resonances from harmonic cancilation. You know how phase cancilation works. Now take 1 line ur speaker (source) and the other Earth (carrier) and put them into 1 line and hey presto SOUND but it is not phased right its not phasing but lossing harmonics. 440 is what as humans has decided is equal temprement, a balance with pureness and dissonance.
Once I understood the thesis, the conclusion made more sense. Unfortunately I had to read through the comments to clarify what your experiment was about.
I detune my guitar to 432hz because it’s more pleasing to me, but I’ve listened to music that’s been converted on YouTube and it’s not as pleasing. It’s like the difference between pressed vinyl records and mp3, or even converting pressed vinyl to mp3, things get lost in the conversion.
I had Goerbells speed up the recordings so we could save time. We were very busy in those days you know, with the war and all.;)
Freedom of pitch,,,
Use the pitch that fits your ear, instrument and voice..
But if we should have a common standard for instrumentation manufacturing etc,, then I still claim that 440Hz is too high since most people sing flat not sharp when you want to be in that strong, projecting sweet spot of your voice..
To my ears 432Hz is slightly to low for the contemporary popular music played in a major key. 435Hz is the perfect inbetween pitch and what Europe used prior the installment of the 440Hz standard.. Man I would even be satisfied with a smaller downtune to 437Hz as it is the shift from 438Hz to 440Hz that is deadly for a lot of voices..
Lets just say that pitch is relative and arbitary in relation to the human voice.
What then could be the cause of the dominance of flat singing compared to sharp singing??
My guess is that 12-Tet has artificial intervals compared to just intonation. In the major scale JI has a much flatter 3 and 6. (~ 13.6 and ~15.4 cents). Maybe it is more natural for the voice to harmonize on even harmonic ratios of JI.
I listen to both and found the first sounding good. The second was slightly different in that the high notes were just slightly sharper the picking of the single note seem to bite. My hearing is sensitive high pitched noises make my ears pop like when you open a Snapple bottle, that was the difference for me. I now understand how over time this might be irritating and foster an unpleasant mindset without knowing why. We all have a vibration so if we are surrounded by a vibration that is slightly off our own natural vibration doesn’t it make sense that it would affect us?
It makes sense. But I used to believe in the human fragility until realized we can cope with this and much more. Is like an atmosphere in space that could no quite be what is best for us. But is not killing us. Life on hearth is toxic sound is not different.
You need to do your homework – it wasn’t the Nazis – it was Mozart who called for 440 – which was enforced only 60 years ago, against 1000’s of musicians, singers and composers wishes… I have studied this topic at both BA(Hons) and Maters level. Copying and pasting info from the internet is a dangerous game when you don’t know the real facts..
A=432Hz is a preferabe scale to 440 for many reasons…
@jenjen I wish there was sane information on this topic. Since it sounds like you have actually studied this can you provide a good source of info? What makes 432 Hz a preferable “scale”? Preferable in what way?
Thanks so much for this info! I find all this so interesting and I really feel that it makes a huge difference listening to music in 432 hz. Now I use the 432 player app on all my music. Being a musician myself, I’m so happy I heard about this and I’ve recently decided to re-release all my own music in 432 hz. If anyone is interested in hearing it, I’m linking to my blog with my EP & music video below. It’s free 🙂
I’m wondering why A = 432 Hz is preferable to 431 Hz? 431 Hz is an integer multiple of the Schumann resonance, which is 7.83 Hz. The schumann resonance is the low frequency resonance of the Earth’s electromagnetic field. Technically you would tune A to 430.7 Hz to get it 55 times the schumann resonance. Has anyone tried this tuning? It sounds like there are historical reasons for the 432 Hz but I haven’t found any physical reasons for it.
I appreciate the manner in which you keep adding to the tech house and techno community. It really is inspiring. I have already been a long-time reader and thought that I should finally reach out to contribute. I found this Spotify playlist and believe it’s suited to this website and its visitors. http://spoti.fi/2v7a0MA What do you think?
Guiseppe Verdi would accept the French standard at 435Hz but suggested 432Hz due to vocal reasons. When you get down to 432Hz (-31.8 cents) the singers in the choir do not need to partly shift register at a certain note. For the bright tenors that is F#4, and for bright sopranos it is the F#5. This early register phenomonen seem to be universal for most voices..
WHen you tune down 1/3 (33 cents) lower than modern A4 most voices just sound natural (talking resonance).
This might be a bit too relaxed sounding for certain styles and brghter voices.. So tuning up to 435Hz gives the voice a little lift without pushing the pitch too high for the deep heavy voices which voices can’t handle anything higher than 438Hz for A4 and maintains more of the full “correct” vocal resonance..
A Tuning fork messured A4=441Hz was sent to the French Commission by Kapellmeister Reissiger, who wrote: The great elevation of the diapason destroys and effaces the effect and character of ancient music, of the masterpieces of Mozart, Gluck and Beethoven.
This commission after a lot of discussion and experiments landed on A4=435Hz in 1859 which became the French standard, later Austrian and geman standard.
My band now tunes down to E-flat to ease the leadsingers job (brightest baritone) using the same string gauge which equals floppier strings and a sharper attack on the note.. So we are probably playing with a slightly higher pitch for A4 at 441Hz adn I can tell.. THe transition (passaggio) becomes a tiny bit more difficult for me.. My voice always prefer a pitch on the south side of 440Hz like 437Hz.
hey buddy !! hope you still read comment of this post. as a musician i think that just shifting a song to a certain frequency is not really the point because it is more important if the band and their instruments (the song) were tuned to that certain “frequency” while recording it..
almost as if it slows down the time…
Simply, there is a new fact Neurology, which means that the brain does grow and of the long exposure to 440Hz our brain starts to burn and our immune system becomes weak as sound was bad for your health before. Only pitch shifting A4 to 432Hz will not damage your health at all, it improves your psychology, and helps with traumatic experience.
Debate is over. Here you go
And here, everything is binary and it ties with the trinity. Hence the base 2 and base 3 correlation. This is the universe brothers and sisters. Numbers speak the truth. Numbers are vibrations and so are you. Be in harmony with the universe and all your manifestations will be granted.
If you want to learn about manifestations (i.e. positive wants)
iyoutome Explains Manifestation
iyoutome Group Manifestation.
As you say, it is virtually imperceptible to tell the difference between A4 at 440hz and at 432hz. You see, it is all about which frequency is in tune with the Earth, the solar system and the Universe, which is also why the correct tuning puts us either in sync with the Universe or out of sync with it. And as you also pointed out, you could not test the health benefits of the proper tuning, so why did you even bother, because this is what it’s really all about? Sometimes, science is so blind.
I posted before and will do it again
This is an issue that can’t be put to rest..
440Hz is too high for a large majority of voices .. (if not all) if you want to stay connected and maintain a good resonance at the second passaggio.
I tested frequencies for the A note from 429Hz to 440Hz.. Around 216Hz/432Hz seems to be the optimal placement for the A3/A4 note for me.
But we use 12-TET which stretches and shortens the true harmonic intervals of the notes in the scale so whether A4 should be 430Hz, 432Hz or 435Hz could depend on the key of the song and the expression you want.
For my deep baritone voice, personally the most difficult passaggio note is E4 at 329.7Hz is standard tuning. Balance is very difficult for that note.. Moving down A4 to 432Hz sets that E4 note at 323.7Hz and 324Hz seems to be the highest frequency for E4 that fits my voice and it keeps my highest headnote at 407.8Hz where 408Hz which i tested for G#4 seems to be just right..
I feel instantly when pitch goes above 435Hz that the passaggio start shifting and getting into the uncomftable zone. My voice do not like when the G#4 note goes much above 410.5Hz.
This is also why it is not mystery that the pitch for A4=435Hz in 1859 (with 12-TET by the way), was chosen in France in 1859. You get a little more orchesteral brightness and exictment of the singers middle note without the second passaggio going over the top so to speak..
In my experience the attack on thinner electric guitar strings and electric bass can be slightly sharp so tuning open strings to 434Hz keep the singers voice in the comfy zone on a long gig..
All I have written goes for my leadsinger in the band who is brighter than me with a passaggio that is at lest shifted a half note up from mine..
My solution for the Linux is completed. 432 does sound better then the pancake and egg 440. I feel rested and my temperature is balanced. Not too cold not too hot. xD
Hello everyone, we recorded our whole album “Life & Death” in 432 hz. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-_zGaDkksrogp__67UiZGBOekDDnhtBl
Hope you like it, Much love <3
no one ever mentions once the fact that down pitching (instead of pitch shifting) would not alter the sound qualities of the music, at least much less than time stretching. it just makes the song slightly slower.
For someone who’s a “Professor,” you lack much needed intelligence to discuss such a complex topic. Nice try shill. Keep supporting the Rockefeller’s corrupt and Satanic system of music.
Hello, hi, Nice day! ( Dont let then have love..) Hii!
Stay away from the pales! We are having our Giant guests!
All explanation then the power. Aaaaah
432 Hz is not better in sound quality but it has a way more natural beeing. It sounds quite interesting but the fact that the Earth’s gravitanional wave has a 432 Hz frequency means that this is how it should be and notice that before it got changed to 440 Hz people were a lot happier, less death by stress and such things which we create for us…. we live in a doomed place because evil people gave everybody directions like the school system and this “little” musical change. Even Nikola Tesla the smartest man who have ever lived in our history was obsessed with numbers 3,6 and 9. 4+3+2 equals 9, and Tesla said the 9 is everything and nothing, we should change it back to make humanity rise again but I am not enough for it, im just a 21 year old dude.
Using precisely 12 numbers in the percentage to shift (-1.81818179773) Does get it to the whole spot.
It isn’t about what sound better or what people like more. In my opinion result is 440 Hz in your test simply because people have used to hear it whole life. This change in frequency work on subconscious level and 432 Hz is in harmony with Creator, Universe or God.
Pitch shifting is a terrible idea, your data set may very well be nothing more than a reflection of people’s affect towards digitally altered sound. It’s no surprise people prefer the unaltered version.
Do it again but record the music with instruments at the various pitches if you actually care for the science.
I must say I totally agree with Alseep – pitch shifting is the worst way to re-tune music because it introduces horrible artifacts. The only way to avoid wrecking the music is to RESAMPLE.
Yet Ubuntu Studio does that great with my real-time pitch shifting guide without any slowdown, even the video quality is much higher. It uses the most letest software for that as the latest low-latency 5.0 kernel no where else now and every audio software that seems helping it. Also analog recording with Audacity works great. Just that why would i use my own stuff if we only need a Chrome OS?
It’s not pitch shifting the song, it’s tuning. You can TUNE a song in Logic Pro to 432. Big difference.
It’s the cymantic part that you should look into. For there you wil be able to see and calculate the perfectness of the Soundwave it’s in shape and form where you should look. Not likes and dislike. Sounds is about form geometry an resonance try these in your experiment ‘s and it might become clear to you
I tuned my guitar to 432, it resonates and “feels” better, not even a placebo. Altering music with a computer to 432 won’t work, it needs to be in that tune to begin with. I’ve seen many supposed 432 retunes that aren’t even shifted the right amount of cents, it’s shifted too far and sounds like garbage.
In India and the middle-east they do not head to the western clinical tuning of 440! Mind you their music has been around for hundreds of years prior to what we in the west consider European based modern music. Are they more in “tune” with the universe….No..Are they out of tune? Yes and No depends if you base music all on one tuning which of course would be complete arrogant. This bs of one tuning vs another holds no water if your ears where not raised in the “dominant” 440 tuning it really doesn’t matter. What ever your ears desire tune it and play on!
[…] di noi può facilmente verificare e proprio a questo proposito indichiamo questo articolo quale esperimento […]
It’s not supposed to sound better. It’s what it does to your being. If you have ever meditated, you don’t do it once and think you’ve mastered it. It’s something you have to work at, doing over and over. You can’t listen to one song at 432 and be all zen and shit. I can tell you that we listen to 440 all the time and we have endless amounts of violence and wars. Maybe if we tried a few years of 432 then we could see if there is change.
[…] Se ha hecho algún experimento científico para contrastar la diferentes sensaciones o cómo le puede agradar o desagradar al oyente una misma canción según esté afinada. Pitch shifting to 432 Hz doesn’t improve music | The Sound Blog (wordpress.com) […]